Hop lifetime

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Date: 25 Oct 2006 09:17:28
From: Wayne
Subject: Hop lifetime

I was thinking of making a kit pale ale this weekend. Instead
of 1 kilo of sugar I will again use a kilo of Muntons (light)
spraymalt. This is the unhopped variety. I'd really like to
use a 500 gramme bag each of hopped and unhopped but hopped
is not available here. I like my pales on the floral side
and I suppose the kit would be a standard pale rather like
Bass or similar.

If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme)
and only use 15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/
water mix for say half an hour would that help?

The main question is how long would the remainder of the
hops last? How quickly do you have to use them after you
break the vaccuum? If I use only 10-15 grammes per kit it's
going to take quite a few brews to use up 113 grammes.

Cheers

Wayne
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/

Date: 25 Oct 2006 15:01:07
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

On Wed, 25 2006 09:17:28 +0900, <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote:
> If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme)
> and only use 15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/
> water mix for say half an hour would that help?

That would give you some extra flavor from the hops (probalby the "floral"
you are looking for). It's not going to give you much bitterness though.
That may be a good procedure, depending on what effect you are going for.

> The main question is how long would the remainder of the
> hops last? How quickly do you have to use them after you
> break the vaccuum? If I use only 10-15 grammes per kit it's
> going to take quite a few brews to use up 113 grammes.

Seal them back up in a ziplock bag and store them in the freezer. They'll
keep for a long time this way (at least many months, probably up to a year
or more). Eventually they'll start to lose some of their strength, but you
should be fine using them up over the next several batches.

John.

Date: 26 Oct 2006 07:44:46
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

On Wed, 25 2006 15:01:07 +0000, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:

> On Wed, 25 2006 09:17:28 +0900, <rondonjin@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme) and only
>> use 15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/ water mix for say
>> half an hour would that help?
>
> That would give you some extra flavor from the hops (probalby the "floral"
> you are looking for). It's not going to give you much bitterness though.
> That may be a good procedure, depending on what effect you are going for.

Basically, the floral bouquet, a subtle hint of bitterness and whatever
else shines through :-)

>> The main question is how long would the remainder of the hops last? How
>> quickly do you have to use them after you break the vaccuum? If I use
>> only 10-15 grammes per kit it's going to take quite a few brews to use
>> up 113 grammes.
>
> Seal them back up in a ziplock bag and store them in the freezer. They'll
> keep for a long time this way (at least many months, probably up to a year
> or more). Eventually they'll start to lose some of their strength, but
> you should be fine using them up over the next several batches.
>
>
> John.

Thanks. I only wish I had another one or two of the HB kegs. I could
brew every weekend, have one or two on tap and one maturing :-) I'd
never have to buy canned beer, pay over the top for imported British
beers or come home from a bar smelling of someone else's ashtray!

Cheers

Wayne
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/

Date: 26 Oct 2006 18:23:04
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

On Thu, 26 2006 07:44:46 +0900, <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Thanks. I only wish I had another one or two of the HB kegs. I could
> brew every weekend, have one or two on tap and one maturing :-) I'd
> never have to buy canned beer, pay over the top for imported British
> beers or come home from a bar smelling of someone else's ashtray!

Just keep aquiring them slowly when you get some extra money or find a
really good deal somewhere. Eventually you'll end up with more capacity
than you know what to do with. I started out with a simple 1 bucket plus
1 carboy equipment kit and two cases of bottles. Now I've got something
like 8 carboys and 20+ kegs, but I built up to that over a number of years.

John.

Date: 25 Oct 2006 10:49:41
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

Date: 26 Oct 2006 07:46:35
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

On Wed, 25 2006 10:49:41 -0400, Gerard Eberlein wrote:

>> The main question is how long would the remainder of the hops last? How
>> quickly do you have to use them after you break the vaccuum? If I use
>> only 10-15 grammes per kit it's going to take quite a few brews to use
>> up 113 grammes.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Wayne
>> --
>> Registered Linux user #375994
>> http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/
>>
> Yea those vacuum sealers are nice, I use mine for hops I buy in bulk and
> for large meat puchases. Can save alot of cash buying in bulk.

Meat, hops or both? :-) Problem for me is storage. The average size room
here is only just big enough to swing a (small) mouse!

Cheers

Wayne
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/

Date: 25 Oct 2006 13:08:03
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

Wayne <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote:
>The main question is how long would the remainder of the
>hops last? How quickly do you have to use them after you
>break the vaccuum? If I use only 10-15 grammes per kit it's
>going to take quite a few brews to use up 113 grammes.

Hop pellets last a good while, if stored in the freezer.
I use whole hops, and, depending on variety, last at least
a year in the (non-frost-free) freezer, without resorting
to vacuum-sealing. I just close them up tightly, squeezing
as much air as possible from the bag. Pellets are even
less susceptible to oxidation, since by their nature they
are already tightly compressed.
If you brew every couple days, you'll have those pellets
used up in well under a year. :-)
--
Joel Plutchak

"Things just fall apart." - Now They'll Sleep (Belly)

Date: 25 Oct 2006 05:48:51
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

In article <pan.2006.10.25.00.17.27.337420@yahoo.com >,
Wayne <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote:
>If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme)
>and only use 15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/
>water mix for say half an hour would that help?

It depends on how you store the unused hops. I vacuum-pack mine with a
FoodSaver and put them in the freezer. ProMash says they degrade only a
little bit under those conditions.

Warmer temperatures and oxygen are hops' enemies. If you store hops in the
refrigerator (or, God forbid, at room temperature) instead of the freezer,
they won't last as long. If you store them in sandwich baggies instead of
oxygen-barrier bags, they won't last as long. If you store them with air
inside the bag instead of a vacuum or nitrogen flush, they won't last as
long.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Date: 25 Oct 2006 21:39:03
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

On Wed, 25 2006 05:48:51 +0000, Scott Alfter wrote:

>>If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme) and only use
>>15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/ water mix for say half an
>>hour would that help?
>
> It depends on how you store the unused hops. I vacuum-pack mine with a
> FoodSaver and put them in the freezer. ProMash says they degrade only a
> little bit under those conditions.
>
> Warmer temperatures and oxygen are hops' enemies. If you store hops in
> the refrigerator (or, God forbid, at room temperature) instead of the
> freezer, they won't last as long. If you store them in sandwich baggies
> instead of oxygen-barrier bags, they won't last as long. If you store
> them with air inside the bag instead of a vacuum or nitrogen flush, they
> won't last as long.

Is a FoodSaver one of them gadgets that suck the air out of bags? I think
I've seen something similar. Seems very useful. I'll have to make room in
the freezer compartment for my special frozen food :-)

Cheers

Wayne
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/

Date: 26 Oct 2006 17:06:08
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

In article <pan.2006.10.25.12.39.01.946959@yahoo.com >,
Wayne <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Wed, 25 2006 05:48:51 +0000, Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme) and only use
>>>15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/ water mix for say half an
>>>hour would that help?
>>
>> It depends on how you store the unused hops. I vacuum-pack mine with a
>> FoodSaver and put them in the freezer. ProMash says they degrade only a
>> little bit under those conditions.
>
>Is a FoodSaver one of them gadgets that suck the air out of bags? I think
>I've seen something similar. Seems very useful. I'll have to make room in
>the freezer compartment for my special frozen food :-)

Yes...they work with special bags that have channels on one side through
which the machine pulls the air out. I bought one at first to pack leftover
hops, but it's ended up getting used for plenty of other stuff in the
kitchen.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Date: 25 Oct 2006 04:37:27
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

"Wayne" <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:pan.2006.10.25.00.17.27.337420@yahoo.com...
>I was thinking of making a kit pale ale this weekend. Instead
> of 1 kilo of sugar I will again use a kilo of Muntons (light)
> spraymalt. This is the unhopped variety. I'd really like to
> use a 500 gramme bag each of hopped and unhopped but hopped
> is not available here. I like my pales on the floral side
> and I suppose the kit would be a standard pale rather like
> Bass or similar.
>
> If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme)
> and only use 15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/
> water mix for say half an hour would that help?
>
> The main question is how long would the remainder of the
> hops last? How quickly do you have to use them after you
> break the vaccuum? If I use only 10-15 grammes per kit it's
> going to take quite a few brews to use up 113 grammes.
>
> Cheers
>
> Wayne

For storing your hops, re-seal the container and keep it refrigerated. They
will still deteriorate but at a much slower rate.
As far as using hops go you can
(a) if you want bitterness, do a partial boil. Such as, you can take a
portion of the kit and add the appropriate amount of water, add your hops
and boil it for one hour. This will extract the bitterness (alpha acids).
Strain out the hops and add it to your main batch.
(b) To add hop flavour, do the same thing but only boil it for 10 - 15
minutes. This will retain some of the lighter hop oils that normally get
boiled off on the longer boil times but won't extract as much bitterness
(c) To add hop aroma, do as you suggested above, steep the hops in wort mix
for half an hour. I suggest the wort should be near boiling when you add the
hops. Strain out the hops before you begin fermentation.
There are other methods. One is to steep them as above in (c) and then boil
the wort for half - one hour, a sort of 'first wort hopping'.
The other is to add dry hops to fermenter after initial fermenatation has
subsided - but be careful here, it does NOT take the place of normal
hopping.
You can combine more than one of the above methods - in fact most brewers do
just that, three additions, bittering, flavouring and aroma
Hope this helps.
Steve W (in Aus)

Date: 25 Oct 2006 21:35:45
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Hop lifetime

On Wed, 25 2006 04:37:27 +0000, Steve/Aus wrote:

>
> "Wayne" <rondonjin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2006.10.25.00.17.27.337420@yahoo.com...
>>I was thinking of making a kit pale ale this weekend. Instead
>> of 1 kilo of sugar I will again use a kilo of Muntons (light) spraymalt.
>> This is the unhopped variety. I'd really like to use a 500 gramme bag
>> each of hopped and unhopped but hopped is not available here. I like my
>> pales on the floral side and I suppose the kit would be a standard pale
>> rather like Bass or similar.
>>
>> If I were to purchase a vaccuum pack of Fuggles (113 gramme) and only
>> use 15 grammes of the hops steeped in the hot kit/ water mix for say
>> half an hour would that help?
>>
>> The main question is how long would the remainder of the hops last? How
>> quickly do you have to use them after you break the vaccuum? If I use
>> only 10-15 grammes per kit it's going to take quite a few brews to use
>> up 113 grammes.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Wayne
>
> For storing your hops, re-seal the container and keep it refrigerated.
> They will still deteriorate but at a much slower rate. As far as using
> hops go you can
> (a) if you want bitterness, do a partial boil. Such as, you can take a
> portion of the kit and add the appropriate amount of water, add your hops
> and boil it for one hour. This will extract the bitterness (alpha acids).
> Strain out the hops and add it to your main batch. (b) To add hop flavour,
> do the same thing but only boil it for 10 - 15 minutes. This will retain
> some of the lighter hop oils that normally get boiled off on the longer
> boil times but won't extract as much bitterness (c) To add hop aroma, do
> as you suggested above, steep the hops in wort mix for half an hour. I
> suggest the wort should be near boiling when you add the hops. Strain out
> the hops before you begin fermentation. There are other methods. One is to
> steep them as above in (c) and then boil the wort for half - one hour, a
> sort of 'first wort hopping'. The other is to add dry hops to fermenter
> after initial fermenatation has subsided - but be careful here, it does
> NOT take the place of normal hopping.
> You can combine more than one of the above methods - in fact most brewers
> do just that, three additions, bittering, flavouring and aroma Hope this
> helps.
> Steve W (in Aus)

Thanks Steve for the excellent suggestions. I found another store that
carries Edme kits, it's only a slight trek from the store that sells
the Black rock ones. Will see what's available and decide what to do.

It's a pity we don't have the range of brewing ingredients here that
you folks are used to. It's a relatively new hobby here and actually
technically illegal unless the alcohol content of the brew is under
1% ABV. Yep, you read that correctly, ONE percent :-)

Cheers

Wayne
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/