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Date: 05 Sep 2006 11:08:31
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
the roof.
Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8? Would crossing two joists
be sufficient, or should I cross 4 joists?
Also, the ceiling of the garage is finished with drywall. Does it
matter if I run the 2x6 on the finished side of the ceiling, or is it
better to run it in the attic? If I run it in the attic, it will
obviously look more attractive in the garage but the eye hook will have
to have a couple inches on it outside the board it is attached to
accommodate the width of the joist and the thickness of the drywall.
I do something similar in my basement to load the chest freezer
converted kegerator. I have a steel cable wrapped around a iron beam
and the chain hoist is connected to that.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 19:15:05
From: Harry K
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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satellite_chris wrote:
> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
> joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
> in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
> to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
> on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
> minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
> unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
> In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
> inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
> weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
>
> Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
> home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
> the roof.
>
> Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8? Would crossing two joists
> be sufficient, or should I cross 4 joists?
>
> Also, the ceiling of the garage is finished with drywall. Does it
> matter if I run the 2x6 on the finished side of the ceiling, or is it
> better to run it in the attic? If I run it in the attic, it will
> obviously look more attractive in the garage but the eye hook will have
> to have a couple inches on it outside the board it is attached to
> accommodate the width of the joist and the thickness of the drywall.
>
> I do something similar in my basement to load the chest freezer
> converted kegerator. I have a steel cable wrapped around a iron beam
> and the chain hoist is connected to that.
>
> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
160 pounds? A chain hoist?!!!. A rope and two pulleys will move that
easily unless you are crippled somehow. Why dick around with a heavy
slow chain hoist? To be honest, I wouldn't even mess around with a
hoist at all to move such an item, a ramp and roll the sucker.
Harry K
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 14:14:36
From: Eric in North TX
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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I've pulled V-8 engines & trannys with less in my younger days, I did
usually make provision to wedge a 2 X 4 or 4 X 4 in on either end
between the top board and the floor effectively creating an A. I will
say the rafters creaked a little with 500 + lbs hanging from them. Then
again they don't build houses now, like they did in the 50's
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 14:55:33
From: HeyBub
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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satellite_chris wrote:
> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
> joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
> in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
> to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the
> handles on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a
> couple minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
> unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
> In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
> inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
> weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
>
> Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
> home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
> the roof.
>
> Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8? Would crossing two joists
> be sufficient, or should I cross 4 joists?
>
> Also, the ceiling of the garage is finished with drywall. Does it
> matter if I run the 2x6 on the finished side of the ceiling, or is it
> better to run it in the attic? If I run it in the attic, it will
> obviously look more attractive in the garage but the eye hook will
> have to have a couple inches on it outside the board it is attached to
> accommodate the width of the joist and the thickness of the drywall.
>
> I do something similar in my basement to load the chest freezer
> converted kegerator. I have a steel cable wrapped around a iron beam
> and the chain hoist is connected to that.
>
> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
Gravity is your friend. Roll the sucker off a ramp.
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 12:51:07
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Chris Lewis,
Would you be willing to share a digital photo of your configuration?
I'm not asking you to climb in to your attic, but perhaps from the
garage side of things.... Or if you could slap a crude drawing
together in paintbrush that would be super helpful.
How did you tie the 4x4 to the 4 trusses? Lag bolts? Also, did the
4x4 extend beyond the far left and right truss a few inches or end
directly on the edge of those trusses?
Why was the quicklink necessary between the eyebolt and the chain
hoist? Also, did your eyebolt extend down far enough from on top of
the trusses in the attic, the full height of the truss and through
sheetrock if you have it?
Thanks for sharing the details of your setup.
Chris
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 20:43:08
From: Chris Lewis
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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According to satellite_chris <satellite_chris@hotmail.com >:
> Would you be willing to share a digital photo of your configuration?
> I'm not asking you to climb in to your attic, but perhaps from the
> garage side of things.... Or if you could slap a crude drawing
> together in paintbrush that would be super helpful.
It doesn't need a picture.
It's as simple as it sounds - I just happened to have a 7' or
so 4x4. Bored a hole thru the middle, installed the largest
eyebolt I could easily find (I think it's 3/8") with washers
especially on top, and dropped the 4x4 crossways across the truss
chords with the eyebolt facing down. The quicklink goes to
the eyebolt, and the chain hoist under that.
> How did you tie the 4x4 to the 4 trusses? Lag bolts? Also, did the
> 4x4 extend beyond the far left and right truss a few inches or end
> directly on the edge of those trusses?
Right now it's not even fastened to the chords ;-) It ain't
going anywhere. I don't plan on doing any swinging on it.
I imagine not fastening it does weaken it somewhat - see below.
Given your load requirements (200 lbs), even a (decent) 2x4 laid
_flat_ across only two truss chords would be sufficient.
Otherwise, many of us would be falling through decks all the time ;-)
But a 4x4 across multiple chords gives _lots_ of margin and
reduces undesigned-for stress on the trusses.
As long as the board fits, don't bother cutting it. A few inches
of overhang can't hurt, and aren't worth cutting off. One end
of mine runs into the hatch opening.
> Why was the quicklink necessary between the eyebolt and the chain
> hoist? Also, did your eyebolt extend down far enough from on top of
> the trusses in the attic, the full height of the truss and through
> sheetrock if you have it?
I didn't want the eyebolt protruding away from the 4x4 any more than
necessary. Because sideways stress would tend to flex and eventually
weaken it. At the same time, I wanted to ensure that the chain
hoist itself clears the bottom of the truss. So, the eye of the
bolt is right against the 4x4, and the quicklink gives me another
3" of hang to the hoist. Probably not strictly necessary (the
hoist has several inches of hook on the top), but the hook on the
hoist won't go through the eyebolt, so I had to put something there
anyway that the hook could go through.
This was a quick hack job, because my small engines course was
starting, and I had to get the engine to the class ;-)
The ceiling is presently trusses, batt insulation, vapor barrier
plastic, and lathe. I will be drywalling it eventually (I've
already done some of the garage).
I just cut the plastic and pushed the fiberglass out of the way.
Given that that punctured the vapor barrier good, and it's necessary
in our climate (especially when I'm heating the garage), I have
to properly "finish it". This will entail putting up short 2x4s
to "box" in a "slot" the eyebolt goes through, and reconstituting
the vapor barrier. At the same time I'll probably (well, I'll
probably blackmail my son to do it ;-) use some 3 1/2" or
4" #10 screws to pre-drill "toe-screws" of the 4x4 into the chords,
and replace the cheap eyebolt with a welded/cast possibly 1/2" one.
If I can afford one ;-)
Fastening the board the eye bolt is on to the _bottom_
of the trusses would work fine for your or my application (even
with just a pair of pre-drilled #10 screws per chord) and would
be much easier.
But I just don't like hanging heavy things on screws or even
lags loaded "straight line". Despite the fact that a properly
installed single #8 screw into softwood is rated at something
on the order of 500+ pounds straight pull. (1400 pounds into
maple is a number I recall from somewhere). But being able to
pry it off with a claw hammer or the result of a good hard
side whack doesn't inspire confidence.
[And I'm not comfortable driving largeish lags into a truss under
any circumstances. I'm going to predrill just to ensure that
there's no tendency to split.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 17:39:16
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Chris Lewis wrote:
> Right now it's not even fastened to the chords ;-) It ain't
> going anywhere. I don't plan on doing any swinging on it.
Given the remote possibility of the thing dragging on the truck bed (or lift
chain hooking a bumper etc), I'd be inclined to attach the thing to all the
trusses it crosses. In fact, for overkill, bracing the lower chords to the ends
of the trusses would decrease the risk of pulling a lower chord out sideways in
the worst case scenario. Think of a K seen looking straight up at the ceiling.
Top and bottom of the K are at the walls and the point where the things meet
are at the lift support.
Mike
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 15:15:26
From: Charlie Morgan
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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On 5 Sep 2006 11:08:31 -0700, "satellite_chris"
<satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
>To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
>am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
>joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
>in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
>to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
>on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
>minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
>unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
>In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
>inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
>weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
>
>Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
>home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
>the roof.
>
>Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8? Would crossing two joists
>be sufficient, or should I cross 4 joists?
>
>Also, the ceiling of the garage is finished with drywall. Does it
>matter if I run the 2x6 on the finished side of the ceiling, or is it
>better to run it in the attic? If I run it in the attic, it will
>obviously look more attractive in the garage but the eye hook will have
>to have a couple inches on it outside the board it is attached to
>accommodate the width of the joist and the thickness of the drywall.
>
>I do something similar in my basement to load the chest freezer
>converted kegerator. I have a steel cable wrapped around a iron beam
>and the chain hoist is connected to that.
>
>Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
Old proverb:
"Never drink more than you can lift"
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 18:56:01
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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satellite_chris@hotmail.com wrote:
> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> am trying to rig a hoist.
> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
Drink "lite" beer?
B.
--
The man without a .sig
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 18:48:27
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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satellite_chris <satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
> joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
> in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
> to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
> on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
> minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
> unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
> In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
> inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
> weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
160 lbs is not that heavy.
> Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
> home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
> the roof.
>
> Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8? Would crossing two joists
> be sufficient, or should I cross 4 joists?
>
> Also, the ceiling of the garage is finished with drywall. Does it
> matter if I run the 2x6 on the finished side of the ceiling, or is it
> better to run it in the attic? If I run it in the attic, it will
> obviously look more attractive in the garage but the eye hook will have
> to have a couple inches on it outside the board it is attached to
> accommodate the width of the joist and the thickness of the drywall.
>
> I do something similar in my basement to load the chest freezer
> converted kegerator. I have a steel cable wrapped around a iron beam
> and the chain hoist is connected to that.
I would use at least a 4x4 across 4 joists and I would attach
it below the ceilingfor easier installation and removal.
I homebrew and bought a carboy lifter for $225 an it's been worth
more than I paid for it. But it's not large enough for a half
gallon keg.
Consider homebrewing for 5 gallon kegs and much better beer!
Dick - MeadGuild at AOL
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 11:36:23
From: brian@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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160 is generally not a lotof weight, but then add to it the weight of
the chain and block and tackle, etc and you're over 200 maybe going
toward 250. The only concern I would have is that being a truss roof
it is engineered to support a load from the top, not necessarily from
the bottom. A truss is one of those things where whole is stronger
than the the sum of the parts. I would suggest trying to put the
support beam above the ceiling joists and to have the support beam span
as many beams as you can (at least 2-3 on each side). This will spread
the load more evenly among the beams. I also suggest you use a doube
2x4 or double 2x6 with boards on edge as your support as the wood is
much stronger on edge than flat. Its probably over-engineering, but
even a little flex will crack your sheetrock on the ceiling.
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 5 Sep 2006 11:08:31 -0700, <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> > am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
> > joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
> > in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
> > to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
> > on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
> > minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
> > unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
> > In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
> > inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
> > weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
> >
> > Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
> > home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
> > the roof.
>
> I don't know, but I'm not a structural engineer. However, have you thought
> about using an engine hoist? They're designed to handle much more weight
> than just a keg, and are not that expensive. The only question would be
> whether the engine hoist would be able to lift the keg high enough to
> get it in the back of your truck.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 19:26:43
From: Chris Lewis
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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According to brian@yahoo.com <brian.sico@gmail.com >:
> 160 is generally not a lotof weight, but then add to it the weight of
> the chain and block and tackle, etc and you're over 200 maybe going
> toward 250. The only concern I would have is that being a truss roof
> it is engineered to support a load from the top, not necessarily from
> the bottom. A truss is one of those things where whole is stronger
> than the the sum of the parts. I would suggest trying to put the
> support beam above the ceiling joists and to have the support beam span
> as many beams as you can (at least 2-3 on each side). This will spread
> the load more evenly among the beams. I also suggest you use a doube
> 2x4 or double 2x6 with boards on edge as your support as the wood is
> much stronger on edge than flat. Its probably over-engineering, but
> even a little flex will crack your sheetrock on the ceiling.
Keep in mind that roof trusses pretty well have to be engineered
well enough to support a person walking along the lower chord.
Which conservatively would be on the order of 300lbs on _each_
chord.
That in mind, I did the following: a chunk of 4x4 extending over
4 truss chords (on top). It just so happens that the 4x4 is
immediately adjacent to truss ties to the upper chord.
The hardware is all rated for at least 1000 pounds working load.
Massive eyebolt thru the 4x4, and a heavy thread style quicklink
between the eyebolt and a chain hoist. The chain hoist is thus
hanging below the truss chords.
I imagine that I could safely lift 1000 pounds (the hoist is a
1 ton unit) but I'm a chicken, and am going to limit it to a few
hundred pounds at most. So far, the heaviest it's had to lift is
the front end of a lawntractor (200 lbs or so). No noises/creaking/sag
whatsoever when I did that.
I'm not into R&R'ing automotive engines and other heavy things.
I'd reinforce it (possibly with the assistance of an engineer)
if I thought I'd have to do full drums or something like that.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 19:38:56
From: sylvan butler
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:26:43 -0000, Chris Lewis <clewis@nortelnetworks.com > wrote:
> Keep in mind that roof trusses pretty well have to be engineered
> well enough to support a person walking along the lower chord.
> Which conservatively would be on the order of 300lbs on _each_
> chord.
Yup. And every time I walk on mine, I get nailpops in the ceiling. :(
I estimate 1/2-in flex under my weight...
> That in mind, I did the following: a chunk of 4x4 extending over
> 4 truss chords (on top). It just so happens that the 4x4 is
> immediately adjacent to truss ties to the upper chord.
A 2x6 on edge (ie, 5-1/2-in tall) will carry more weight. And if you
fasten thru the 2x6 (thru the 1-1/2-in dimension) into vertical truss
members it will be very solid.
I'm wondering about doing my entire attic space that way to eliminate
the nail pops caused by my walking around up there (have a lot of wires
and plumbing to run).
> I'd reinforce it (possibly with the assistance of an engineer)
> if I thought I'd have to do full drums or something like that.
Full drum of water, eg 55gUS, is still well under your 1000lb
guestimate. :)
sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 10:49:30
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
sylvan butler <ZsdbUse1+noZs_0609@Zbigfoot.Zcom.invalid > wrote:
> Full drum of water, eg 55gUS, is still well under your 1000lb
> guestimate. :)
Under 460 lbs is much closer.
Dick
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 17:29:19
From: Chris Lewis
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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According to Dick Adams <rdadams@smart.net >:
> sylvan butler <ZsdbUse1+noZs_0609@Zbigfoot.Zcom.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Full drum of water, eg 55gUS, is still well under your 1000lb
> > guestimate. :)
>
> Under 460 lbs is much closer.
Well, yeah, but I'm still too much a chicken to try that much
with the hoist set up as it is currently, even though I _think_
it could handle it.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Date: 05 Sep 2006 18:21:03
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 5 Sep 2006 11:08:31 -0700, <satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
> joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
> in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
> to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
> on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
> minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
> unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
> In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
> inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
> weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
>
> Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
> home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
> the roof.
I don't know, but I'm not a structural engineer. However, have you thought
about using an engine hoist? They're designed to handle much more weight
than just a keg, and are not that expensive. The only question would be
whether the engine hoist would be able to lift the keg high enough to
get it in the back of your truck.
John.
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 01:29:28
From: mm
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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On 5 Sep 2006 18:21:03 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:
>On 5 Sep 2006 11:08:31 -0700, <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
>> am trying to rig a hoist. I am planning to run a 2x6 across several
>> joists attached via lag bolts in my garage with a heavy duty eye hook
>> in the center. I will then use a 500lb capacity chain hoist connected
>> to the 2x6, connected to a custom bracket that fits between the handles
>> on the keg. The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
>> minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
>> unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
>> In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
>> inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
>> weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
>>
>> Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
>> home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
>> the roof.
>
>I don't know, but I'm not a structural engineer. However, have you thought
>about using an engine hoist? They're designed to handle much more weight
>than just a keg, and are not that expensive. The only question would be
>whether the engine hoist would be able to lift the keg high enough to
>get it in the back of your truck.
Sort of a good idea, but there still remains the question, how can he
attach the engine hoist to the frame of the house, so that the frame
can support everything? That the engine hoist can hold everything
below it, and one person can raise the engine or keg doesn't lessen
the weight on the frame of the house, above it.
>
>
>John.
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 15:11:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:29:28 -0400, <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com > wrote:
>>I don't know, but I'm not a structural engineer. However, have you thought
>>about using an engine hoist? They're designed to handle much more weight
>>than just a keg, and are not that expensive. The only question would be
>>whether the engine hoist would be able to lift the keg high enough to
>>get it in the back of your truck.
>
> Sort of a good idea, but there still remains the question, how can he
> attach the engine hoist to the frame of the house, so that the frame
> can support everything? That the engine hoist can hold everything
> below it, and one person can raise the engine or keg doesn't lessen
> the weight on the frame of the house, above it.
An engine hoist wouldn't attach to the frame of the house. It's a seperate
stand. Something like this:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG1029K&N=700+303976+115
John.
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Date: 07 Sep 2006 09:38:39
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
>
> An engine hoist wouldn't attach to the frame of the house. It's a
seperate
> stand. Something like this:
>
>
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG1029K&N=700+303976+115
>
I have one in the garage and used it several times. Does a great job of
snatching heavy stuff out of the back of my P/U. Got it at Sam's for $40
less and that's one heavy package by it's self, you'd pay a bunch for
shipping. Mine also came with a leveling bar that isn't in the Summit
description or pictures.
Mark R
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 14:45:41
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:38:39 -0500, <marknorayspam@noev1spam.net > wrote:
>
> "John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net> wrote in message
>>
>> An engine hoist wouldn't attach to the frame of the house. It's a
> seperate
>> stand. Something like this:
>>
>>
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG1029K&N=700+303976+115
>>
>
> I have one in the garage and used it several times. Does a great job of
> snatching heavy stuff out of the back of my P/U. Got it at Sam's for $40
> less and that's one heavy package by it's self, you'd pay a bunch for
> shipping. Mine also came with a leveling bar that isn't in the Summit
> description or pictures.
Yeah, I just grabbed the example from Summit because the link was handy. I've
seen them cheaper elsewhere. You can usually get them from Sears or local
autoparts stores (probably a special order), so should be able to just go
pick one up rather than pay for shipping.
John.
|
| |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 16:04:18
From: stencil
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 5 Sep 2006 11:08:31 -0700, "satellite_chris"
<satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
>To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
>am trying to rig a hoist. [ ... ] The full
>weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
>
>Does anyone see any reason to be concerned with the structure of the
>home? The joists are the bottom of trusses in the attic that support
>the roof.
>
> [ ... ]
>Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
160 pounds? What's the big huhu? I weigh 200 and have no concerns
when I suspend that from a span joist, for whatever reason.
stencil sends
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 16:42:37
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
etcs.ret@verizon.net wrote:
> 160 pounds? What's the big huhu? I weigh 200 and have no concerns
> when I suspend that from a span joist, for whatever reason.
We should have thought to send the OP to the alt.dominatrix
groups. They'd know better than anyone how to suspend a
couple hunderd pounds from the ceiling.
--
The man without a .sig
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 20:11:34
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Bart Goddard <goddardbe@netscape.net >:
>etcs.ret@verizon.net wrote:
>> 160 pounds? What's the big huhu? I weigh 200 and have no
>> concerns when I suspend that from a span joist, for whatever
>> reason.
>We should have thought to send the OP to the alt.dominatrix
>groups. They'd know better than anyone how to suspend a couple
>hunderd pounds from the ceiling.
Probably know the best use of extra LME too.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
|
| |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 07:43:23
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Richard,
How do I attach the SuperStrut to the joists or are you suggesting just
letting it lay there?
Thanks for your suggestion!
Chris
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> No. Go up in the attic with a piece of SuperStrut from Home Depot
> electrical aisle. Lay it so it crosses the rafters. Use 1/2" threaded rod
> and nuts to project a stud through the ceiling down into the garage so it
> sticks out an inch or so. Use a coupling nut and 1/2" threaded eye to get
> your attachment point.
>
> I have lifted 800 lbs this way:
>
> http://www.truetex.com/movemill.htm
>
> Stabbing lag screws into rafters weakens the rafters, and you risk pull-out
> of the screws.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 11:08:55
From: Goedjn
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 6 Sep 2006 07:43:23 -0700, "satellite_chris"
<satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Richard,
>
>How do I attach the SuperStrut to the joists or are you suggesting just
>letting it lay there?
>
Let it lay there. If you get enough lateral force to make it
slide, you WANT it to slide, instead of yanking the truss(s) out
sideways.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 16:24:04
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
satellite_chris writes:
> How do I attach the SuperStrut to the joists or are you suggesting just
> letting it lay there?
Lay it crosswise with the C opening up. No attachment needed unless you
expect a lot of sideways forces. The 1/2" threaded rod goes vertically
down through the gypsum board ceiling, and lightly secures the assembly in
place. Run a nut and washer up to the bottom of the ceiling from below,
and in the attic you have a washer and nut on top, so the pair of nuts on
the rod are acting as a weakly tightened (a little more than finger-tight)
clamp that holds the strut down in the attic.
You weakly tighten so as to avoid cracking the gypsum board. Under load
the clamp loosens so you don't crack the gypsum board. If you start to see
a gap between the washer and ceiling, you know you have a load that's
starting to bend the joists. But in my applications I've lifted 500 to 800
lbs without even loosening the hand-tight clamping.
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 21:51:11
From:
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Geez, everyone sure is making it complicated to lift that 160 lb keg!
It's not like it's a 600 lb engine or something.
My suggestion: Tap the keg while it's still in the pickup, you're not
going to be drinking and driving anyway, are you?
:)
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwasserm@charm.net
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 05:49:26
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
<lwasserm@fellspt.charm.net > wrote:
> Geez, everyone sure is making it complicated to lift that
> 160 lb keg! It's not like it's a 600 lb engine or something.
This is a very good point. I hung an 80 lb kick bag by bolting
a piece of 4x4 between two joists and suspending from a heavy
duty hook. It took almost daily abuse for 9 years so much
abuse that the bag had to be replaced twice.
> My suggestion: Tap the keg while it's still in the pickup,
> you're not going to be drinking and driving anyway, are you? :)
My only problem is that beer will get warm unless you're
holding a party.
Dick
|
| |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 01:54:45
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
satellite_chris writes:
> Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8?
No. Go up in the attic with a piece of SuperStrut from Home Depot
electrical aisle. Lay it so it crosses the rafters. Use 1/2" threaded rod
and nuts to project a stud through the ceiling down into the garage so it
sticks out an inch or so. Use a coupling nut and 1/2" threaded eye to get
your attachment point.
I have lifted 800 lbs this way:
http://www.truetex.com/movemill.htm
Stabbing lag screws into rafters weakens the rafters, and you risk pull-out
of the screws.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 14:28:31
From: Todd H.
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Richard J Kinch <kinch@truetex.com > writes:
> satellite_chris writes:
>
> > Should I use a larger board such as a 2x8?
>
> No. Go up in the attic with a piece of SuperStrut from Home Depot
> electrical aisle. Lay it so it crosses the rafters. Use 1/2" threaded rod
> and nuts to project a stud through the ceiling down into the garage so it
> sticks out an inch or so. Use a coupling nut and 1/2" threaded eye to get
> your attachment point.
>
> I have lifted 800 lbs this way:
>
> http://www.truetex.com/movemill.htm
>
> Stabbing lag screws into rafters weakens the rafters, and you risk pull-out
> of the screws.
Interesting discussion. I like the idea of not stabbing things into
the rafters.
Superstrute makes a lot of stuff though... Is it their channel that
you used?
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-47-conduit-straps/gold-channel-651404.aspx
http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/superstrut.pdf
--
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 16:15:04
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Todd H. writes:
> Superstrute makes a lot of stuff though... Is it their channel that
> you used?
> http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-47-conduit-straps/gold-
c
> hannel-651404.aspx
That looks like it: 1-5/8 x 1-5/8 C-channel with rolled edges and 1/2"
oblong perforations. Zinc chromate surface treatment, or if you can
find it, the hot-dipped zinc.
> http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/superstrut.pdf
I used the "A series" metal framing channels from this catalog that are
sold at Home Depot. But any of the series seem like they should handle
loads of this type.
This stuff is the thing to remember when you have a hardware requirement
of this type. Forget the hardware aisle, and go to the electrical aisle
for Superstrut. The long threaded rods there are multiples cheaper than
the hardware aisle, too.
I actually had the 10' lengths Superstrut left over from scaffolding I
improvised for a stoneworking project. I had used it to hang an
accurate and straight ledge off a cantilever slab that was the coping of
my swimming pool. The ledge supported heavy slabs of marble while they
were set into mortar on a vertical face:
http://www.truetex.com/dsc00454.jpg
|
| |
Date: 05 Sep 2006 23:48:36
From: Stu
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
What a good idea, I am going to do that this weekend as I already have
a mark on a 10 months old car (not me driving honest).
Stu
http://www.cateringappliancesltd.co.uk
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 07:32:23
From: HeyBub
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Stu wrote:
> What a good idea, I am going to do that this weekend as I already have
> a mark on a 10 months old car (not me driving honest).
> Stu
> http://www.cateringappliancesltd.co.uk
You MUST use an old tennis ball and a long shoelace. Anything else defies
convention, mocks historical precedent, and is an insult to the combined
wisdom of the generations.
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 14:33:09
From: Tomes
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
"HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:12ftfu2rl4ddd3a@news.supernews.com...
> Stu wrote:
>> What a good idea, I am going to do that this weekend as I already have
>> a mark on a 10 months old car (not me driving honest).
>> Stu
>> http://www.cateringappliancesltd.co.uk
>
> You MUST use an old tennis ball and a long shoelace. Anything else defies
> convention, mocks historical precedent, and is an insult to the combined
> wisdom of the generations.
I use an old 2x6 laid on the floor. This works fine and I did not need to
build anything. I marked around it with chalk if it ever moved, but it
stays in place well.
Tomes
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 19:02:20
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
In article <12ftfu2rl4ddd3a@news.supernews.com >,
HeyBub <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com > wrote:
>Stu wrote:
>> What a good idea, I am going to do that this weekend as I already have
>> a mark on a 10 months old car (not me driving honest).
>> Stu
>> http://www.cateringappliancesltd.co.uk
>
>You MUST use an old tennis ball and a long shoelace. Anything else defies
>convention, mocks historical precedent, and is an insult to the combined
>wisdom of the generations.
My grandparents used either a ping-pong ball or a wiffle ball...can't
remember which for sure. I think it was a small wiffle ball, about the same
size as a golf ball, and it dangled from some string.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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=dX1p
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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| | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 11:33:31
From: William Benz Jr
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
"HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:12ftfu2rl4ddd3a@news.supernews.com...
> You MUST use an old tennis ball and a long shoelace. Anything else defies
> convention, mocks historical precedent, and is an insult to the combined
> wisdom of the generations.
>
>
I use an old metal garbage can about 3 feet from the wall. It still slams
the wall every few weeks. I think my wife is trying to give me a stroke!
Bill
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 09:41:06
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
"William Benz Jr" <wbenzjr-nospam@twcny.rr.com > wrote in message
news:fsTLg.36462$uH6.11629@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:12ftfu2rl4ddd3a@news.supernews.com...
> > You MUST use an old tennis ball and a long shoelace. Anything else
defies
> > convention, mocks historical precedent, and is an insult to the combined
> > wisdom of the generations.
> >
> >
> I use an old metal garbage can about 3 feet from the wall. It still slams
> the wall every few weeks. I think my wife is trying to give me a stroke!
>
That's why I stand behind the front door and jump out at her when she comes
home from work. ;-)
Mark R
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 17:39:37
From: mm
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 5 Sep 2006 23:48:36 -0700, "Stu"
<stuwright@cateringappliancesltd.co.uk > wrote:
>
>What a good idea, I am going to do that this weekend as I already have
>a mark on a 10 months old car (not me driving honest).
>Stu
>http://www.cateringappliancesltd.co.uk
My mother just used something little and light, the size of a thimble
iirc, heavy enough to hold the cotton string straight, and big enough
to be seen and for her to tell when it touched the window, (because it
stops getting closer), but not annoying if you walk into it when there
is no car in the garage.
A lot of the other devices, including the fancy expensive ones, can't
be seen until you're supposed to stop, or not at all. This one can
see from several feet away. Unfortunately I have no garage.
|
| |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 01:37:25
From: mm
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 5 Sep 2006 11:08:31 -0700, "satellite_chris"
<satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
>The keg will only be suspended by the hook for a couple
>minutes at most to give time to either pull the truck out when
>unloading a keg, or pull the truck underneath the keg when loading.
>In both cases it will be cranked up just enough to hover a couple
>inches above the truck bed and then be lowered to the floor. The full
>weight of a full 1/2 barrel is about 160lbs.
I think with a little added thought you can eliminate the part where
you have to move the truck for each keg. Hang a doodad from the
ceiling of the garage**, so that your rear truck window just hits it
when you are far enough backed in that the end of your hoist is just
beyond the edge of your tailgate. You can pull the keg onto the
tailgate or attach it when it is in the truck, whichever you plan to
do, and when you lift it up it will swing a little but shouldn't be
dangerous, and when it is beyond the tailgate (directly below the
hoist attaching point) you can lower it.
When you raise it, when it is higher than the truck be=d, push it in a
bit with one arm and lower with the other.
**They sell these stupid red, or red and green lights, to tell when
you are far enough into the garage. They also have one that uses
sonar, iirc. My mother just hung a doodad from a string so that it
hit the windshield when she was the right amount in. It cost nothing,
needed no batteries, never broke, and worked for a decade until she
moved out of the house. (She might have had to raise or lower it when
she got a different car, but in the case of her cars, which were about
the same size, I don't think so.)
|
| |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 12:05:08
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Interesting...if it were to slide too far it would probably cause a keg
to come crashing down. I can't imagine not attaching it but I suppose
I should just take everyones word for it.
Goedjn wrote:
> On 6 Sep 2006 07:43:23 -0700, "satellite_chris"
> <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Richard,
> >
> >How do I attach the SuperStrut to the joists or are you suggesting just
> >letting it lay there?
> >
>
> Let it lay there. If you get enough lateral force to make it
> slide, you WANT it to slide, instead of yanking the truss(s) out
> sideways.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 16:15:04
From: Goedjn
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 6 Sep 2006 12:05:08 -0700, "satellite_chris"
<satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Interesting...if it were to slide too far it would probably cause a keg
>to come crashing down. I can't imagine not attaching it but I suppose
>I should just take everyones word for it.
>Goedjn wrote:
It can't slide more than the distance between two joists,
because the part that sticks down will jam up against
one. if it tries to slide the other way, you MIGHT
get enough rotation to let the beam drop through.
If this is a permanant installation, you want it
anchored to the top of the wall-plates.
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 08:59:21
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
I have to unload four 50L kegs in two weeks in a single session which
is rough on the back. It has nothing to do with being too weak, it is
a matter of being cautious about the situation. I herniated a disc in
my back last year after the same party which I assume was directly
related to the lifting and lowering of four kegs from the pickup bed
and then the lifting up and over the hieght of chest freezer and then
lowering down. One false move with your back or legs and you can open
yourself up to serious injury with even less than 160lbs no matter how
strong you are.
Normally I have one or two kegs to unload at a time with a month or two
inbetween, but once a year I have four and for that day I would rather
make it as pain free as possible. I already have the chain hoist for
something I rigged up in the basement to raise them up above the height
of the kegerator (chest freezer conversion) and then roll the freezer
underneath and lower. I figured I might as well leaverage what I have
to make the operation as painless as possible. I could do something
with a ramp but if the trussess are strong enough to handle the
downward load, then I would like to take an approach that seems to
guarantee no injury to me or the precious nectar inside the keg. Plus
I like fooling with stuff and thought it is just a cool thing to have
if it is safe on the home.
Harry K wrote:
> Exactly. If there ever was a case of over-engineering, this is it.
> 160 lb keg does not need a hoist to get it out of the bed. One plank
> and either drag or roll if it you are too weak to gently lower 160
> pounds. If a hoist is wanted, one pulley on the ceiling and one on the
> keg brings it down to 80 pound pull on a rope. I am surprised no-one
> except you and I have mentioned the absurdity of setting up for a
> CHAINHOIST!!!
>
> Harry K
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 07:49:16
From: Harry K
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
lwasserm@fellspt.charm.net wrote:
> Geez, everyone sure is making it complicated to lift that 160 lb keg!
> It's not like it's a 600 lb engine or something.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
> lwasserm@charm.net
Exactly. If there ever was a case of over-engineering, this is it.
160 lb keg does not need a hoist to get it out of the bed. One plank
and either drag or roll if it you are too weak to gently lower 160
pounds. If a hoist is wanted, one pulley on the ceiling and one on the
keg brings it down to 80 pound pull on a rope. I am surprised no-one
except you and I have mentioned the absurdity of setting up for a
CHAINHOIST!!!
Harry K
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 19:17:24
From: Harry K
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Todd H. wrote:
> "zero" <notrealzero2@tnotrealzero2.com> writes:
>
> > "satellite_chris" <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1157479711.672134.11240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> > > am trying to rig a hoist.
> >
> > How about this. You'll never be caught in a back braking situation again.
> >
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1647
>
> Now that looks like a really good, compact, low cost solution....
>
> --
> Todd H.
> http://www.toddh.net/
Ah yes! I had forgotten about them. I had considered adding one back
when but never bothere.
Harry K
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 19:14:37
From: Harry K
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Zaphod Beeblebrock wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:10:46 -0700, Harry K wrote:
>
> >
> > satellite_chris wrote:
> >> I have to unload four 50L kegs in two weeks in a single session which is
> >> rough on the back. It has nothing to do with being too weak, it is a
> >> matter of being cautious about the situation. I herniated a disc in my
> >> back last year after the same party which I assume was directly related
> >> to the lifting and lowering of four kegs from the pickup bed and then
> >> the lifting up and over the hieght of chest freezer and then lowering
> >> down. One false move with your back or legs and you can open yourself
> >> up to serious injury with even less than 160lbs no matter how strong you
> >> are.
> >>
> >> Normally I have one or two kegs to unload at a time with a month or two
> >> inbetween, but once a year I have four and for that day I would rather
> >> make it as pain free as possible. I already have the chain hoist for
> >> something I rigged up in the basement to raise them up above the height
> >> of the kegerator (chest freezer conversion) and then roll the freezer
> >> underneath and lower. I figured I might as well leaverage what I have
> >> to make the operation as painless as possible. I could do something
> >> with a ramp but if the trussess are strong enough to handle the downward
> >> load, then I would like to take an approach that seems to guarantee no
> >> injury to me or the precious nectar inside the keg. Plus I like fooling
> >> with stuff and thought it is just a cool thing to have if it is safe on
> >> the home.
>
> > No, I wouldn't make a practice of regularly lifting 160 pounds (don't know
> > if I still could anyhow). I was loading/unloading full 55 gal fuel drums
> > from farm trucks back when I was young and stupid using nothing but a
> > ramp. No lifting involved except for uprighting the drum when it was in
> > place.
>
> How old are you guys? 80? 90? And here I thought I was getting out of
> shape because I was getting pooped after lifting 8 or 10 200-300 lb.
> chunks of oak onto my truck after spending the morning cutting it,
> unloading it and going back to do it again after lunch...and I'm a 6'2"
> 140 lb. bean-pole. I must be in better shape than I thought for a nearly
> 50 fart with an involuntary medical retirement from the army. {G}
>
> --
> Falcon's Rest
> Zymurgical Alchemy
> First Inter-Galactic Guild House Of
> The Brotherhood Of St. Cathode Of Anode
Me, I';m in the 'old fart' category (71). Still cutting my own wood
and busting it down only small enough to load on the PU. Never weighed
any of the blocks but they are some odd heavy. May have to start
making them smaller. My last trip was last Saturday and my back is
telling me about it still. It never done that before.
Harry K
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 21:30:17
From: zero
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
"satellite_chris" <satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157479711.672134.11240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> am trying to rig a hoist.
How about this. You'll never be caught in a back braking situation again.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1647
-zero
|
| | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 16:48:29
From: Todd H.
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
"zero" <notrealzero2@tnotrealzero2.com > writes:
> "satellite_chris" <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157479711.672134.11240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> > am trying to rig a hoist.
>
> How about this. You'll never be caught in a back braking situation again.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1647
Now that looks like a really good, compact, low cost solution....
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
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Date: 07 Sep 2006 13:10:46
From: Harry K
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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satellite_chris wrote:
> I have to unload four 50L kegs in two weeks in a single session which
> is rough on the back. It has nothing to do with being too weak, it is
> a matter of being cautious about the situation. I herniated a disc in
> my back last year after the same party which I assume was directly
> related to the lifting and lowering of four kegs from the pickup bed
> and then the lifting up and over the hieght of chest freezer and then
> lowering down. One false move with your back or legs and you can open
> yourself up to serious injury with even less than 160lbs no matter how
> strong you are.
>
> Normally I have one or two kegs to unload at a time with a month or two
> inbetween, but once a year I have four and for that day I would rather
> make it as pain free as possible. I already have the chain hoist for
> something I rigged up in the basement to raise them up above the height
> of the kegerator (chest freezer conversion) and then roll the freezer
> underneath and lower. I figured I might as well leaverage what I have
> to make the operation as painless as possible. I could do something
> with a ramp but if the trussess are strong enough to handle the
> downward load, then I would like to take an approach that seems to
> guarantee no injury to me or the precious nectar inside the keg. Plus
> I like fooling with stuff and thought it is just a cool thing to have
> if it is safe on the home.
>
>
Okay, I can buy that but I still think the chain hoist is way
overboard. I would get a lot more fun out of rigging a few pulleys
than using one of those as heavy and slow as they are. I can see
needing a hoist to raise the kegs -up- but a ramp would be plenty for
bringing them -down-.
No, I wouldn't make a practice of regularly lifting 160 pounds (don't
know if I still could anyhow). I was loading/unloading full 55 gal
fuel drums from farm trucks back when I was young and stupid using
nothing but a ramp. No lifting involved except for uprighting the drum
when it was in place.
Harry K
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 17:42:05
From: Chris Lewis
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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According to Harry K <turnkey4099@hotmail.com >:
> Okay, I can buy that but I still think the chain hoist is way
> overboard.
Well yeah, but if you recall, I think I was the first to mention
a chain hoist, simply because because I _already_ had one (a
christmas present from 10 years earlier!) when I set up my lift
system, so I built what I built with what I had, and described _that_.
A pulley system could just as easily be substituted for the _specific_
purpose of lowering barrels, but from the safety/ease/lifting
standpoint, it isn't as nice as a hoist.
[And mine was for _both_ lifting and lowering things.]
> I would get a lot more fun out of rigging a few pulleys
> than using one of those as heavy and slow as they are. I can see
> needing a hoist to raise the kegs -up- but a ramp would be plenty for
> bringing them -down-.
There's something to be said for engineering your solutions to be
a bit more generalized than the original problem. They often
get used for more things than you originally intended.
I do that a lot. Overbuild/overcomplicate things. But over the
years, it's usually turned out to have been a very good idea.
Yeah, I could have lifted the lawn tractor motor with a 2:1 pulley
setup. But (a) I already had the chain hoist and (b) now I can do
a lot of other things that a simple pulley arrangement can't do or
can't do very well.
I could have used an engine hoist instead - a little more flexible.
But I don't have one, I had a chain hoist.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 23:44:20
From: sylvan butler
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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On 7 Sep 2006 13:10:46 -0700, Harry K <turnkey4099@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Okay, I can buy that but I still think the chain hoist is way
> overboard. I would get a lot more fun out of rigging a few pulleys
> than using one of those as heavy and slow as they are. I can see
> needing a hoist to raise the kegs -up- but a ramp would be plenty for
> bringing them -down-.
Agreed. This is all you need (I'd still like to see the load spread
across two or more ceiling trusses):
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45076
Don't pay more than $5. Oh, and the biggest disadvantage to it, is lack
of a brake -- maintain tension, else the load will come down. With a
double pulley on the load and a triple on the ceiling, you'll be pulling
only circa 40 lbs. Of course, with a 6ft lift you'll have a 24ft pile
of rope on the floor. :)
sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
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Date: 07 Sep 2006 19:46:06
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Shoot, that is exactly what I need!
I would still need to use a chain hoist with it though, right, so that
I could lower the item once I swing it off the truck bed?
zero wrote:
> "satellite_chris" <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157479711.672134.11240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > To save my back when lifting half barrels on and off my pickup truck I
> > am trying to rig a hoist.
>
> How about this. You'll never be caught in a back braking situation again.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1647
>
>
> -zero
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 10:42:52
From: Goedjn
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On 7 Sep 2006 19:46:06 -0700, "satellite_chris"
<satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Shoot, that is exactly what I need!
>
>I would still need to use a chain hoist with it though, right, so that
>I could lower the item once I swing it off the truck bed?
What do you think the hydraulic cylinder is for?
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1647
>>
>>
>> -zero
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 10:01:55
From: Todd H.
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu > writes:
> On 7 Sep 2006 19:46:06 -0700, "satellite_chris"
> <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Shoot, that is exactly what I need!
> >
> >I would still need to use a chain hoist with it though, right, so that
> >I could lower the item once I swing it off the truck bed?
>
>
> What do you think the hydraulic cylinder is for?
And the added benefit is that the hydraulic cylinder is gonna make the
lowering a low easier/smoother than a chain hoist would.
We mustn't upset the BEER!
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 23:52:00
From: sylvan butler
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 10:42:52 -0400, Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu > wrote:
> On 7 Sep 2006 19:46:06 -0700, "satellite_chris"
><satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Shoot, that is exactly what I need!
>>
>>I would still need to use a chain hoist with it though, right, so that
>>I could lower the item once I swing it off the truck bed?
>
>
> What do you think the hydraulic cylinder is for?
Back it up right to the chest freezer, lift, swing, lower. Ahh. :)
sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 19:45:30
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Much thanks to Chris Lewis and Harry K and everyone else who provided
the great suggestions and guidance!
Chris
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 19:41:02
From: Harry K
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Chris Lewis wrote:
> According to Harry K <turnkey4099@hotmail.com>:
> > Okay, I can buy that but I still think the chain hoist is way
> > overboard.
>
> Well yeah, but if you recall, I think I was the first to mention
> a chain hoist, simply because because I _already_ had one (a
> christmas present from 10 years earlier!) when I set up my lift
> system, so I built what I built with what I had, and described _that_.
>
> A pulley system could just as easily be substituted for the _specific_
> purpose of lowering barrels, but from the safety/ease/lifting
> standpoint, it isn't as nice as a hoist.
>
> [And mine was for _both_ lifting and lowering things.]
>
> > I would get a lot more fun out of rigging a few pulleys
> > than using one of those as heavy and slow as they are. I can see
> > needing a hoist to raise the kegs -up- but a ramp would be plenty for
> > bringing them -down-.
>
> There's something to be said for engineering your solutions to be
> a bit more generalized than the original problem. They often
> get used for more things than you originally intended.
>
> I do that a lot. Overbuild/overcomplicate things. But over the
> years, it's usually turned out to have been a very good idea.
>
> Yeah, I could have lifted the lawn tractor motor with a 2:1 pulley
> setup. But (a) I already had the chain hoist and (b) now I can do
> a lot of other things that a simple pulley arrangement can't do or
> can't do very well.
>
> I could have used an engine hoist instead - a little more flexible.
> But I don't have one, I had a chain hoist.
> --
> Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
> It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
Quite true on all the points and I also tend to really overbuild
things, sometimes with malice aforethought but more often just because
I overbuild things.
Harry K
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 11:20:37
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
That was kind of what I was thinking. The initial purpose of this
hoist in the garage would be for removing kegs out of the pickup
safely, by myself, with no danger to my back. I had all kinds of
other ideas in mind for things that it might be useful for down the
road. I have a zero turn mower that I could maintain easier using the
same garage hoist.
I think I am set on a 4x4 in the attic going across 4 trusses and
screwed in to the trusses with a simple screw. No gigantic lag bolts.
I like the idea of the super strut but I am just nervous about not
screwing it to the trussess, I can just picture the superstrut spinning
90 degrees for some reason and come crashing down through the
sheetrock.
Same for the 4x4, I can imagine the same thing happening if not screwed
in to some degree.... I wish I could just trust the superstrut idea
and do the no screw method....
Chris Lewis wrote:
> There's something to be said for engineering your solutions to be
> a bit more generalized than the original problem. They often
> get used for more things than you originally intended.
>
> I do that a lot. Overbuild/overcomplicate things. But over the
> years, it's usually turned out to have been a very good idea.
>
> Yeah, I could have lifted the lawn tractor motor with a 2:1 pulley
> setup. But (a) I already had the chain hoist and (b) now I can do
> a lot of other things that a simple pulley arrangement can't do or
> can't do very well.
>
> I could have used an engine hoist instead - a little more flexible.
> But I don't have one, I had a chain hoist.
> --
> Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
> It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 20:04:10
From: Chris Lewis
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
According to satellite_chris <satellite_chris@hotmail.com >:
> That was kind of what I was thinking. The initial purpose of this
> hoist in the garage would be for removing kegs out of the pickup
> safely, by myself, with no danger to my back. I had all kinds of
> other ideas in mind for things that it might be useful for down the
> road. I have a zero turn mower that I could maintain easier using the
> same garage hoist.
> I think I am set on a 4x4 in the attic going across 4 trusses and
> screwed in to the trusses with a simple screw. No gigantic lag bolts.
> I like the idea of the super strut but I am just nervous about not
> screwing it to the trussess, I can just picture the superstrut spinning
> 90 degrees for some reason and come crashing down through the
> sheetrock.
> Same for the 4x4, I can imagine the same thing happening if not screwed
> in to some degree.... I wish I could just trust the superstrut idea
> and do the no screw method....
[I'm familiar with superstrut. I've handled some offcuts, so I know
what it is. But I don't think our HDs carry it. Unfortunate...
There are neat things you can do with it that you can't with
lumber. Eg: cheap/solid rails for home built table saw fences ;-)]
When it comes down to it, the strut and the 4x4 are equivalent
in terms of being paranoid about it turning sideways (the strut
perhaps being a little more likely in terms of less friction).
Both are more than adequate in terms of strength.
In my case, it'd be pretty difficult for the 4x4 to spin because
it's partially wedged in place with parts of the roof truss.
But still, I'm fussy, and "finishing" the job will entail a couple
of #8 or #10 screws tied into the trusses. If nothing else so
it won't move and disturb the rest of the ceiling.
You could do that with the super strut too - drill a couple of small
holes and poke a few #8s or #10s. [predrill the trusses if you're
paranoid about splitting. As long as you don't split 'em, a few
screws won't hurt the trusses.]
There are situations where super-strut would be preferable to 4x4s
for this application, but 4x4s are cheap, plentiful and perfectly
adequate for most situations.
_Whatever_ you use for support, I do strongly recommend that you
don't have the eyebolt (or whatever you hang the hoist on) extend
below the 4x4/super-strut any more than just the eye of the bolt itself.
If you use let a long eyebolt protrude, say, 4" below the support
beam, and have your load swing perpendicular to the support
beam, the support beam may rock (increasing the possibility of
slip) if the beam isn't fastened to the trusses, and potentially
fatigue-break the screws/damage the trusses if it is fastened to
the trusses.
In other words, keep the swing arm supporting the hoist as _short_
as possible. You can use a quicklink like I did, or a few links
worth of proper chain. Or maybe the top hook on the hoist makes
it unnecessary.
This does mean that you can't have a bolt shank sized hole in
the ceiling drywall. Just make the hole big enough to handle
the max swing - probably 4-5 inches in diameter. Mine's probably
going to end up being a rectangular recess. Insulation piled
over top to make up for the loss of insulation between the
bottom truss chords.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 04:41:55
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Chris Lewis writes:
> I'm familiar with superstrut. I've handled some offcuts, so I know
> what it is. But I don't think our HDs carry it.
They hide it on the electrical aisle, next to the standing racks of
conduit.
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 23:48:54
From: sylvan butler
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:41:55 -0500, Richard J Kinch <kinch@truetex.com > wrote:
> Chris Lewis writes:
>
>> I'm familiar with superstrut. I've handled some offcuts, so I know
>> what it is. But I don't think our HDs carry it.
>
> They hide it on the electrical aisle, next to the standing racks of
> conduit.
The local home depots just started carrying it one year, maybe two years
ago. And only 2 of the 3 I visit regularly have it now. The third did
a closeout only a few months after getting it in. Unfortunately the
strut was gone when I saw the yellow tags, but I got a good selection of
misc hardware (bolts, washers, etc) for WAY less than the hardware aisle.
sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 10:52:02
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Harry K wrote:
> If a hoist is wanted, one pulley on the ceiling and one on the
> keg brings it down to 80 pound pull on a rope.
In case people can't imagine how that's rigged... Rope is fixed to the
ceiling (4x4 or whatever), runs down to the keg, through a pulley (how
do you connect a pulley to a keg?), back up to the ceiling, through
another pulley, and down again.
And you'll get quite a bit less than the theoretical 2-to-1 advantage
-- probably more like a 90 pound pull instead of 80. And if I were
doing it, I'd use climbing carabiners instead of pulleys, way cheaper
and good to around 5000 pounds (if used properly).
As for connecting the pulley to the keg, I'm picturing a "keg harness"
made of webbing, cleverly tied somehow...
Scott
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 14:16:56
From: Randy
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
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Simpler still (and portable) -
A suitably strong ramp for the back of the pick up and a two-wheeler
with good tires (the air-filled ones are better than the solid kind, in
my experience) and just roll the kegs up and down.
You can probably find a suitable handtruck at Home Depot or similar or
if you want fancy, you can get one made for keg moving
<http://www.handtrucks.com/hand-trucks/specialty-hand-trucks/products.cfm?action=view&key=MIL035 >
And for a ramp - http://www.fivestarmfginc.com/archedramps.htm
I am sure all this is available locally where you are, the links are
just for the examples.
Randy
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 14:16:56
From: Randy
Subject: Re: Hoisting a Keg using Garage Ceiling
|
Simpler still (and portable) -
A suitably strong ramp for the back of the pick up and a two-wheeler
with good tires (the air-filled ones are better than the solid kind, in
my experience) and just roll the kegs up and down.
You can probably find a suitable handtruck at Home Depot or similar or
if you want fancy, you can get one made for keg moving
<http://www.handtrucks.com/hand-trucks/specialty-hand-trucks/products.cfm?action=view&key=MIL035 >
And for a ramp - http://www.fivestarmfginc.com/archedramps.htm
I am sure all this is available locally where you are, the links are
just for the examples.
Randy
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