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Date: 29 Jun 2006 13:56:54
From: James
Subject: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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I'm planning on brewing my first wit tomorrow and I'm a little confused
on whether or not to use fresh orange zest, dried bitter orange peel,
or a combination of both. If you use fresh zest (or a combination), how
much should go into a 10 gallon batch. Also, I've read about the
addition of chamomile and would like to know if I should use chamomile
tea or some other form and how much. Thanks in advance.
James
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 15:21:20
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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> Speaking of coriander, are you going to use any?
Yes, I was planning on using about an an once and half for ten gallons
in the last five minutes.
> You can try something ahead of me if you wish. For my next batch, I was
> going to try and get some caracao or bergamot extract and fiddle with it
> at the start of secondary fermentation. Say, I'd draw a measured sample
> and drop in a minute amount from a dropper. I think I could get it to
> preference very quickly this way. I did that with a sour peach wheat
> beer to great satisfaction.
I think I'll let you try that out first. Sounds like a good idea- make
sure and post your results. Thanks for the help.
James
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Date: 29 Jun 2006 21:55:29
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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James wrote:
> I'm planning on brewing my first wit tomorrow and I'm a little confused
> on whether or not to use fresh orange zest, dried bitter orange peel,
> or a combination of both. If you use fresh zest (or a combination), how
> much should go into a 10 gallon batch. Also, I've read about the
> addition of chamomile and would like to know if I should use chamomile
> tea or some other form and how much. Thanks in advance.
Either you'll get a variety of answers here, or everybody telling you
there are a variety of answers.
Don't use anything to do with regular sweet oranges because they are
definately different from caracao peels. Such oranges have a bitter
taste, kind of like bergamot oranges (think Earl Grey). I don't think
chamomile tea will have the right effect.
Quantity is also disputeable. I've used 4 ounces of peel and 2 ounces
of coriander in 5 gallons. It was pretty strong and I liked it, but
others were turned off. I'd mark that as a high limit.
Speaking of coriander, are you going to use any?
You can try something ahead of me if you wish. For my next batch, I was
going to try and get some caracao or bergamot extract and fiddle with it
at the start of secondary fermentation. Say, I'd draw a measured sample
and drop in a minute amount from a dropper. I think I could get it to
preference very quickly this way. I did that with a sour peach wheat
beer to great satisfaction.
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 07:26:57
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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Brian M. S=F8rensen wrote:
> chamomile works great in a Wit, but it is not chamomille tea, it is dried
> flowers.
> I use 1/10 ounce of dried chamomile flowers, 1/5 ounce dried bitter orange
> peel, and 3/4 ounce of coriander in 5gallons
> If you can get pickled bitter orange peel it is better
I'm not sure where I can get chamomile flowers, but maybe I'll grow it
next year. I noticed that you use only 1/5th dried bitter orange peel.
This is quite a bit less than others. Do you find that it still comes
through clearly? I've never seen pickled orange peel- what are it's
advantages?
Thanks,
James
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 05:37:34
From: Brian M. Sørensen
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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try a tea/spice shop or online
in a wit if you can pick out the spice it too much!! (it's all my opinion)
I have only seen pickled orange peel in a 'tea' shop in Denmark, and in tea
the flavor is a alot better
in beer it addes up ;-) the 'fresh' orange flavor in a wit comes from
coriander seeds not orange peel
/Brian
"James" <jstephens4@kc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:1151677617.819911.29830@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Brian M. Sørensen wrote:
> chamomile works great in a Wit, but it is not chamomille tea, it is dried
> flowers.
> I use 1/10 ounce of dried chamomile flowers, 1/5 ounce dried bitter orange
> peel, and 3/4 ounce of coriander in 5gallons
> If you can get pickled bitter orange peel it is better
I'm not sure where I can get chamomile flowers, but maybe I'll grow it
next year. I noticed that you use only 1/5th dried bitter orange peel.
This is quite a bit less than others. Do you find that it still comes
through clearly? I've never seen pickled orange peel- what are it's
advantages?
Thanks,
James
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 07:19:12
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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> I would not use fresh, it doesn't seem to give the right character IMO...if
> you fell you must, try the zest off 5 oranges, 3 didn't seem to be enough
> and was very muted when I gave oranges a whirl...
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
Thanks. I'll probably stick with the dried bitter that I have. I was
looking at your recipe and noticed "sweet orange peel." Is this
something that I can get at the LHBS? I was also wondering with all the
different advise on quantity that I'm finding, does your recipe have a
distinctly orange character, or is it somewhat subtle? I know this is
subjective but I was curious about your perception of your recipe.
Thanks for your help.
James
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 15:27:39
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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James <jstephens4@kc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:1151677152.104334.290890@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks. I'll probably stick with the dried bitter that I have. I was
> looking at your recipe and noticed "sweet orange peel." Is this
> something that I can get at the LHBS? I was also wondering with all the
> different advise on quantity that I'm finding, does your recipe have a
> distinctly orange character, or is it somewhat subtle? I know this is
> subjective but I was curious about your perception of your recipe.
> Thanks for your help.
Orange bittering will tend to linger while the flavor will tend to fade. The
sweet and bitter seemed to strike a great balance. I think I bought them
locally, but could have ordered them...most likely from Grape and Granary...
http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1284.html
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 08:18:55
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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James <jstephens4@kc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:1151614614.578451.102270@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> I'm planning on brewing my first wit tomorrow and I'm a little confused
> on whether or not to use fresh orange zest, dried bitter orange peel,
> or a combination of both. If you use fresh zest (or a combination), how
> much should go into a 10 gallon batch. Also, I've read about the
> addition of chamomile and would like to know if I should use chamomile
> tea or some other form and how much. Thanks in advance.
I would not use fresh, it doesn't seem to give the right character IMO...if
you fell you must, try the zest off 5 oranges, 3 didn't seem to be enough
and was very muted when I gave oranges a whirl...
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 30 Jun 2006 11:37:15
From: Brian M. Sørensen
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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chamomile works great in a Wit, but it is not chamomille tea, it is dried
flowers.
I use 1/10 ounce of dried chamomile flowers, 1/5 ounce dried bitter orange
peel, and 3/4 ounce of coriander in 5gallons
If you can get pickled bitter orange peel it is better
/Brian
"James" <jstephens4@kc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:1151614614.578451.102270@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> I'm planning on brewing my first wit tomorrow and I'm a little confused
> on whether or not to use fresh orange zest, dried bitter orange peel,
> or a combination of both. If you use fresh zest (or a combination), how
> much should go into a 10 gallon batch. Also, I've read about the
> addition of chamomile and would like to know if I should use chamomile
> tea or some other form and how much. Thanks in advance.
>
> James
>
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 00:03:10
From: yew
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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Brian M. Sørensen wrote:
>chamomile works great in a Wit, but it
>is not chamomille tea, it is dried
>flowers.
Um...chamomile tea *is* just dried chamomile flowers, unless you buy something that's not 100% chamomile.
Brina
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 17:29:13
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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Adam Preble wrote:
> Just to clarify here, was that the bulk tea? I tend to use that, but I
> figure when most people talk of tea, they're talking about the bags. I
> got some chamomile in bags awhile ago, and I think it was mixed with tea
> leaves.
I'm sure that is sometimes or often the case but the ones I bought are
in bags but are only the chamomile flowers (TraditionalMedicinals.com).
It's advertised as Organic Chamomile.
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 10:50:26
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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> Orange bittering will tend to linger while the flavor will tend to fade. The
> sweet and bitter seemed to strike a great balance. I think I bought them
> locally, but could have ordered them...most likely from Grape and Granary...
> http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1284.html
I was able to get some at my local shop before I brewed. I used your
orange additions and I only had an once of corriander (for ten gallons)
so I threw in another tsp of the preground stuff. I put in 20 black
peppercorns and a little less than half an once of chamomile (in the
last minute). I didn't want to mess with gelatinizing raw wheat so I
used wheat flakes. I ended up using 12lbs of Pilsner, 4 lbs of white
wheat malt, 5lbs of flaked wheat, 1lb of flaked oats, and half a pound
of Belgian Aromatic, and 2lbs of rice hulls ( I don't think I needed
that many.) The color looks right. I had a hell of time cooling it
below eighty, even with CF chiller. It was a hot one! I split the batch
between WLP 720 and WLP 400. I'll let you know how it comes out. Thanks
again to all for the advice.
James
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 10:29:33
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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James <jstephens4@kc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:1151776226.719262.13200@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> I didn't want to mess with gelatinizing raw wheat
If you get a chance, try it and see what you think. I tried flaked,
torrified, malt, etc and found that the raw stuff seemed the best, YMMV...
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 10:32:36
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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yew wrote:
> Brian M. S=F8rensen wrote:
>
> >chamomile works great in a Wit, but it
> >is not chamomille tea, it is dried
> >flowers.
>
> Um...chamomile tea *is* just dried chamomile flowers, unless you buy some=
thing that's not 100% chamomile.
>
> Brina
You're right. I went and got some at the local wholefoods before I
brewed and sure enough it was dried chamomile flowers only.
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Date: 01 Jul 2006 23:28:56
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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James wrote:
> yew wrote:
>> Brian M. Sørensen wrote:
>>
>>> chamomile works great in a Wit, but it
>>> is not chamomille tea, it is dried
>>> flowers.
>> Um...chamomile tea *is* just dried chamomile flowers, unless you buy something that's not 100% chamomile.
>>
>> Brina
>
> You're right. I went and got some at the local wholefoods before I
> brewed and sure enough it was dried chamomile flowers only.
>
Just to clarify here, was that the bulk tea? I tend to use that, but I
figure when most people talk of tea, they're talking about the bags. I
got some chamomile in bags awhile ago, and I think it was mixed with tea
leaves.
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Date: 02 Jul 2006 12:48:52
From: James
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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MDixon wrote:
> James <jstephens4@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:1151776226.719262.13200@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> > I didn't want to mess with gelatinizing raw wheat
>
> If you get a chance, try it and see what you think. I tried flaked,
> torrified, malt, etc and found that the raw stuff seemed the best, YMMV...
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
I will try that. By the way, I based my mash tun off of your design as
well last year and it's still working like a champ. Thanks again.
James
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Date: 03 Jul 2006 09:53:02
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Fresh Orange Zest and Chamomile in Belgian Wit?
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James <jstephens4@kc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:1151869732.308570.251090@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> I will try that. By the way, I based my mash tun off of your design as
> well last year and it's still working like a champ. Thanks again.
The valve will eventually fall apart. It will take 5 or so years so be
prepared...;)
Cheers,
Mike
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