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Date: 04 Jun 2006 05:25:16
From: David Wuertele
Subject: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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I'm lazy. I've always pitched my yeast straight from the vial,
because it works fine for me. Now people have told me that making a
starter will make my beer taste better. I'm thinking how I can
minimize the work.
What if I brew a 5 gallon batch of my favorite recipe, cool it to room
temp, split it up into 1-liter tupperware containers, and put those
into deep freeze? Then on brew day I can pull one or two of these out
of the freezer, microwave it up to 68F, and have an instant sanitary
starter wort.
Is there any problem with this plan? Does anyone have a simpler
solution?
Dave
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 02:40:57
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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David Wuertele wrote:
> I'm lazy. I've always pitched my yeast straight from the vial,
> because it works fine for me. Now people have told me that making a
> starter will make my beer taste better. I'm thinking how I can
> minimize the work.
I can't contribute to the freezing wort question directly here. My own
opinion is that there shouldn't be a problem. However, I don't think
making starters is that big of a deal. I'm not sterilizing in beakers,
but I use plastic bottles after bathing in a sanitary solution for a few
days. So far, no problems <crosses fingers >
As for the taste from a starter, that wouldn't be something that would
come to mind if I was suggesting starters to somebody. I would suggest
a starter for other reasons:
1. Lagers are slow to start due to their lower fermentation
temperatures. Hitting them with a ton of starter gets them going quickly.
2. A sugary wort for a high alcohol beer may need multiple pitches of
yeast, so it's convenient to keep a few starts floating around. If
fermentation stalls, a second starter can kick it up again.
3. Starters will reduce fermentation time. This could have a small
impact on taste; it'll reduce the time the fermented beer will have
spent on trub.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 15:26:44
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:40:57 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> As for the taste from a starter, that wouldn't be something that would
> come to mind if I was suggesting starters to somebody. I would suggest
> a starter for other reasons:
>
> 1. Lagers are slow to start due to their lower fermentation
> temperatures. Hitting them with a ton of starter gets them going quickly.
> 2. A sugary wort for a high alcohol beer may need multiple pitches of
> yeast, so it's convenient to keep a few starts floating around. If
> fermentation stalls, a second starter can kick it up again.
> 3. Starters will reduce fermentation time. This could have a small
> impact on taste; it'll reduce the time the fermented beer will have
> spent on trub.
All three of those have to do with improving the taste of the beer, although
indirectly. Making a starter is all about improving the health of your
yeast and making a stronger/healthier fermentation. Doing so reduces lag
time (decreasing the chance of bacteria getting a foothold), lowers the
risk of a stuck/stalled fermentation, and helps the yeast to produce less
by-products during the fermentation. Healthy yeast will make better beer,
making a starter will help your yeast to be healthier.
You can make good beer without a starter, but using one will help you to
more consitently make good beer and also helps increase your odds of making
a great beer. IMO, the benefit far exceeds the amount of extra work.
John.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 09:41:20
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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> What if I brew a 5 gallon batch of my favorite recipe, cool it to room
> temp, split it up into 1-liter tupperware containers, and put those
> into deep freeze?
I make 12 quarts of starter from 3 lb. of extract and put it in boiled
mason jars. I know that is not absolutely safe against botulism, but I
reboil the starter after opening the jar. (breaks down the toxin) I
also don't let them sit more than a few months.
I'm not sure the recipe matters much in a starter, as long as it's not
too high an O.G. and relatively light in color. To me, the time saved
in keeping it simple more than offsets the cost of extract, although I
doubt you were talking about mashing for a starter.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 20:09:11
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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Hash: SHA1
In article <1149525680.519769.112720@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com >,
John Krehbiel <j_krehbiel@hotmail.com > wrote:
>> What if I brew a 5 gallon batch of my favorite recipe, cool it to room
>> temp, split it up into 1-liter tupperware containers, and put those
>> into deep freeze?
>
>I make 12 quarts of starter from 3 lb. of extract and put it in boiled
>mason jars. I know that is not absolutely safe against botulism, but I
>reboil the starter after opening the jar.
With a pressure cooker (not that expensive, even for a new one), you can do
a proper canning job that'd sterilize the wort. It would keep nearly
indefinitely, and you could prepare a starter by decanting the wort into a
sanitized flask (leave the settled hot break behind) and pitching the yeast
into the flask.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 01:16:34
From: HAL 9000
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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To me making a fresh starter is pretty easy. And would seem easier to do
batch to batch than a 5 gallon boil and long term storage prep. It's not
at all like doing a regular brew where you're dealing with a large volume of
liquid to chill and funnels and whatnot to sanitize. If you are interested
though, MDixon has info on canning wort.
I just boil a few cups of extract-wort for about 10 minutes with a little
hops. The small volume cools very quickly by dunking the pot in a sink full
of water. Pitch yeast into a sanitized a quart jar with a #13 stopper and
air lock. Done.
24 hours later you're ready to pitch.
It's part of my standard procedure now, because it's nice to have krausen
within an hour of pitching.
"David Wuertele" <dave-gnus@bfnet.com > wrote in message
news:m3y7wdumz7.fsf@bfnet.com...
> I'm lazy. I've always pitched my yeast straight from the vial,
> because it works fine for me. Now people have told me that making a
> starter will make my beer taste better. I'm thinking how I can
> minimize the work.
>
> What if I brew a 5 gallon batch of my favorite recipe, cool it to room
> temp, split it up into 1-liter tupperware containers, and put those
> into deep freeze? Then on brew day I can pull one or two of these out
> of the freezer, microwave it up to 68F, and have an instant sanitary
> starter wort.
>
> Is there any problem with this plan? Does anyone have a simpler
> solution?
>
> Dave
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 04:45:57
From: David Wuertele
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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John > I make 12 quarts of starter from 3 lb. of extract and put it in
John > boiled mason jars. I know that is not absolutely safe against
John > botulism, but I reboil the starter after opening the
John > jar. (breaks down the toxin) I also don't let them sit more than
John > a few months.
So you aren't even freezing it? That's even better!
Do you think flavor would be affected by freezing wort?
Dave
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 19:27:19
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 04:45:57 -0700, <dave-gnus@bfnet.com > wrote:
> John> I make 12 quarts of starter from 3 lb. of extract and put it in
> John> boiled mason jars. I know that is not absolutely safe against
> John> botulism, but I reboil the starter after opening the
> John> jar. (breaks down the toxin) I also don't let them sit more than
> John> a few months.
>
> So you aren't even freezing it? That's even better!
I don't know the answer, but the thing to be worried about is botulism.
Based on what I'e seen, most people that save wort for later use as a starter
will use canning jars because it's sterile.
> Do you think flavor would be affected by freezing wort?
Why does the flavor matter for a starter?
John.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 04:41:55
From: David Wuertele
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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Derric > I think that freezing is likely to kill most/all of the yeast. You can
Derric > mix the yeast with some glycerin to prevent that. See here:
Derric > http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/Homebrew/Freezing%20Yeast.htm
I hadn't actually considered freezing the yeast, just the wort. I
figured it would be more flexible that way because I could change my
yeast and still use the frozen wort.
Dave
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 19:49:24
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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>> I think that freezing is likely to kill most/all of the yeast.
>> You can mix the yeast with some glycerin to prevent that. See here:
>> http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/Homebrew/Freezing%20Yeast.htm
> I hadn't actually considered freezing the yeast, just the wort. I
> figured it would be more flexible that way because I could change my
> yeast and still use the frozen wort.
If my recollection is correct, Johnny Mc posted his recipe and
procedure for making a Barleywine he named "Cause of Death."
He stored several quarts of the wort for adding in as the
fermentation went along. "Cause of Death" was interrupted by
Hurricane Katrina and topped out around 22%.
Dick
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 17:40:36
From: Derric
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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> What if I brew a 5 gallon batch of my favorite recipe, cool it to room
> temp, split it up into 1-liter tupperware containers, and put those
> into deep freeze? ...
I think that freezing is likely to kill most/all of the yeast. You can
mix the yeast with some glycerin to prevent that. See here:
http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/Homebrew/Freezing%20Yeast.htm
He makes a 30% glycerin / 70% water mixture and then mixes that 50/50
with the yeast slurry.
If you have a "frost-free" freezer, you should insulate the container
somehow so that it doesn't "cycle" with the defrost cycle.
Derric
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 15:01:50
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Freezing wort for easy starters?
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Derric <derric1961@removethis.yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:slrne88r4k.hu3.derric1961@bhm29.hiwaay.net...
>
> > What if I brew a 5 gallon batch of my favorite recipe, cool it to room
> > temp, split it up into 1-liter tupperware containers, and put those
> > into deep freeze? ...
>
> I think that freezing is likely to kill most/all of the yeast. You can
> mix the yeast with some glycerin to prevent that. See here:
> http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/Homebrew/Freezing%20Yeast.htm
>
> He makes a 30% glycerin / 70% water mixture and then mixes that 50/50
> with the yeast slurry.
>
> If you have a "frost-free" freezer, you should insulate the container
> somehow so that it doesn't "cycle" with the defrost cycle.
I have it on good authority that he doesn't do that anymore since he lost
his nice freezer source...I still have some tubes in the frost-free freezer
in an insulated container, but have not tried any to see if they made it
through the ride home and time in the garage freezer, with several power
outages. Will be an interesting experiment...
Cheers,
Mike
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