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Main
Date: 14 Jun 2006 14:24:37
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Flat Beer
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OK give me hell but I opened a bottle of IPA I primed and bottled 5 days
ago. It was a 3/4 full bottle, the last of what was left in the bucket. I
primed it with 6 oz of priming sugar and 2 cups of water. It's comepletely
flat. Yes I know I should give it a full week preferably 2 weeks but my RIS
I tasted at 6 days had a nice carbonation going. The RIS was 5.4% abv and
the bottle had a 1/8th inch of trub/silt, whatever it's called in the bottom
of the bottle. The IPA has almost none and is a 7.1 abv. I had fermed the
IPA for 7 days dry hopped and racked it to secondary for 10 days. alot of
trub settled in the carboy over this time. Did the ABV kill my yeast? Did I
not get enough trub in the bottling bucket when I went to bottle? Or does it
take longer to carbonate high ABV beers? The beer tastes perfect, just no
carbonation. Thanx in advance.
Gerard
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 21:12:28
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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dormouse@charter.net wrote:
> It's comepletely flat.
There's quite a few well-intentioned posters here, but
they've all ignored the main problem with your process:
_You're_not_kegging_.
Bart
--
The man without a .sig
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 13:14:36
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> WOW...that's a long time to wait for an impatient person like me...but if
> that's what it takes...Sigh...making a quick HEFE this week..i need some
> homebrew quick...lol
I bought my way free of this impatience by going to kegging fairly
early on :-) I'm still not patient whatosever -- I combat this by
brewing more batches so there's always something ready "in the
pipeline."
At least that's what I used to do. Lately I seem to be brewing mostly
for other people so I have none left for myself :-)
Scott
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 12:39:01
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
>
> OK give me hell but I opened a bottle of IPA I primed and bottled 5 days
> ago. It was a 3/4 full bottle, the last of what was left in the bucket. I
> primed it with 6 oz of priming sugar and 2 cups of water. It's comepletely
> flat. Yes I know I should give it a full week preferably 2 weeks but my RIS
> I tasted at 6 days had a nice carbonation going. The RIS was 5.4% abv and
> the bottle had a 1/8th inch of trub/silt, whatever it's called in the bottom
> of the bottle. The IPA has almost none and is a 7.1 abv. I had fermed the
> IPA for 7 days dry hopped and racked it to secondary for 10 days. alot of
> trub settled in the carboy over this time. Did the ABV kill my yeast? Did I
> not get enough trub in the bottling bucket when I went to bottle? Or does it
> take longer to carbonate high ABV beers? The beer tastes perfect, just no
> carbonation. Thanx in advance.
7.1% ABV isna't all that high, and is not gonna bother the yeast. It
may take them a bit longer than you're used to, but I'd bet if you're
patient you'll be OK. Sometimes there's no rhyme nor reason and they
just take longer to carb..don't sweat it.
--------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 15:52:05
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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I'm just wondering...i did ferm it too high..like 71F room temp so I know
the wort was alot hotter..then I learned that 60's is better so I moved the
carboy to my 62 F room when I racked it...can this major change in temp
affect the yeast?
Gerard
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 19:59:19
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:52:05 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> I'm just wondering...i did ferm it too high..like 71F room temp so I know
> the wort was alot hotter..then I learned that 60's is better so I moved the
> carboy to my 62 F room when I racked it...can this major change in temp
> affect the yeast?
Not significantly.
John.
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Date: 15 Jun 2006 08:39:15
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering...i did ferm it too high..like 71F room temp so I know
> the wort was alot hotter..then I learned that 60's is better so I moved the
> carboy to my 62 F room when I racked it...can this major change in temp
> affect the yeast?
It's so unlikely that I wouldn't consider it....
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 19:18:52
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> OK give me hell but I opened a bottle of IPA I primed and bottled 5 days
> ago. It was a 3/4 full bottle, the last of what was left in the bucket. I
> primed it with 6 oz of priming sugar and 2 cups of water. It's comepletely
> flat. Yes I know I should give it a full week preferably 2 weeks but my RIS
> I tasted at 6 days had a nice carbonation going. The RIS was 5.4% abv and
> the bottle had a 1/8th inch of trub/silt, whatever it's called in the bottom
> of the bottle. The IPA has almost none and is a 7.1 abv. I had fermed the
> IPA for 7 days dry hopped and racked it to secondary for 10 days. alot of
> trub settled in the carboy over this time. Did the ABV kill my yeast? Did I
> not get enough trub in the bottling bucket when I went to bottle? Or does it
> take longer to carbonate high ABV beers? The beer tastes perfect, just no
> carbonation. Thanx in advance.
>
>
> Gerard
>
>
I have a standing policy that I do not open IPAs until 2 months from
the bottling date. I generally stick to it. That said, I've tried IPAs
at 2 weeks and found not a bubble in them, and then a month later
they're fine.
Wait longer.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 15:31:39
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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> I have a standing policy that I do not open IPAs until 2 months from
> the bottling date. I generally stick to it. That said, I've tried IPAs
> at 2 weeks and found not a bubble in them, and then a month later
> they're fine.
>
> Wait longer.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
WOW...that's a long time to wait for an impatient person like me...but if
that's what it takes...Sigh...making a quick HEFE this week..i need some
homebrew quick...lol
Gerard
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 20:00:52
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:31:39 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
>
>> I have a standing policy that I do not open IPAs until 2 months from
>> the bottling date. I generally stick to it. That said, I've tried IPAs
>> at 2 weeks and found not a bubble in them, and then a month later
>> they're fine.
>>
>> Wait longer.
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
>> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
>
> WOW...that's a long time to wait for an impatient person like me...but if
> that's what it takes...Sigh...making a quick HEFE this week..i need some
> homebrew quick...lol
The most difficult thing to learn about homebrewing is patience.
John.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 19:38:36
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
>
>> I have a standing policy that I do not open IPAs until 2 months from
>> the bottling date. I generally stick to it. That said, I've tried IPAs
>> at 2 weeks and found not a bubble in them, and then a month later
>> they're fine.
>>
>> Wait longer.
>>
>
> WOW...that's a long time to wait for an impatient person like me...but if
> that's what it takes...Sigh...making a quick HEFE this week..i need some
> homebrew quick...lol
>
> Gerard
>
>
High gravity beers can take a while to mature. My IPAs are drinkable
at one month but spectacular at 2. Worth the wait. I have a lower
gravity beer (simple English PA at 1.044) right now that was ready in
the bottle at 8 days. This Friday night they'll be at 2 weeks in the
bottle and should be great.
I had to learn patience the hard way on this topic, like everyone
else. The key is to have other beers in-flight while waiting for your
IPA to "mature".
:-)
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 12:40:45
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> High gravity beers can take a while to mature. My IPAs are drinkable
> at one month but spectacular at 2. Worth the wait. I have a lower
> gravity beer (simple English PA at 1.044) right now that was ready in
> the bottle at 8 days. This Friday night they'll be at 2 weeks in the
> bottle and should be great.
>
> I had to learn patience the hard way on this topic, like everyone
> else. The key is to have other beers in-flight while waiting for your
> IPA to "mature".
But it's all aboput your own personal tastes. I usually am drinking the
1.073 OG, 75 IBU Rye IPA 2 weeks or so from brewing. I find that aging
that beer really loses some of the "in-your-face"ness that makes it so
great.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 20:15:23
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Denny Conn <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John Bleichert wrote:
>
>> High gravity beers can take a while to mature. My IPAs are drinkable
>> at one month but spectacular at 2. Worth the wait. I have a lower
>> gravity beer (simple English PA at 1.044) right now that was ready in
>> the bottle at 8 days. This Friday night they'll be at 2 weeks in the
>> bottle and should be great.
>>
>> I had to learn patience the hard way on this topic, like everyone
>> else. The key is to have other beers in-flight while waiting for your
>> IPA to "mature".
>
> But it's all aboput your own personal tastes. I usually am drinking the
> 1.073 OG, 75 IBU Rye IPA 2 weeks or so from brewing. I find that aging
> that beer really loses some of the "in-your-face"ness that makes it so
> great.
>
> ---------->Denny
True. With my most recent IPA I found that at 3 months the malt
flavors and bittering and had really come into their own, but it had
lost a lot of the hop nose. The nose is there at cellar temps, but not
once chilled. I need to work on that one.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 18:35:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:24:37 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> OK give me hell but I opened a bottle of IPA I primed and bottled 5 days
> ago. It was a 3/4 full bottle, the last of what was left in the bucket. I
> primed it with 6 oz of priming sugar and 2 cups of water. It's comepletely
> flat. Yes I know I should give it a full week preferably 2 weeks but my RIS
> I tasted at 6 days had a nice carbonation going. The RIS was 5.4% abv and
> the bottle had a 1/8th inch of trub/silt, whatever it's called in the bottom
> of the bottle. The IPA has almost none and is a 7.1 abv. I had fermed the
> IPA for 7 days dry hopped and racked it to secondary for 10 days. alot of
> trub settled in the carboy over this time. Did the ABV kill my yeast? Did I
> not get enough trub in the bottling bucket when I went to bottle? Or does it
> take longer to carbonate high ABV beers? The beer tastes perfect, just no
> carbonation. Thanx in advance.
What temperature has it been stored at during carbonation?
Don't get too caught up in comparing beers. Just because beer A behaved one
way does not mean that beer B will behave the same way. Each one is a little
different. IMO, minimal carbonation after only 5 days isn't anything to panic
about. Give it more time. Also, if they're too cold then that will really
slow down the process. Shoot for room temperature while they are carbonating
(around 70F).
The ABV didn't kill your yeast, and I doubt you had any problems with not
having enough yeast in the bottles. IMO, just be more patient.
John.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 14:42:18
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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they have been at a room temp of 72 F and when I say it has no carb i mean
zilch. Nary a champagne bubble. I will wait and if it doesn't carb I will
still drink it. Has a really nice flavour.Just will be disappointed is all
and don't want to make the same mistake if i did a mistake at all.
Gerard
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 20:01:15
From: Colin
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> they have been at a room temp of 72 F and when I say it has no carb i mean
> zilch. Nary a champagne bubble. I will wait and if it doesn't carb I will
> still drink it. Has a really nice flavour.Just will be disappointed is all
> and don't want to make the same mistake if i did a mistake at all.
>
> Gerard
>
>
I have found that a 3/4 full bottle ended up being flat (or at least
flatter) -- I just figured that maybe the CO2 just moved into the
headspace because there was more "room" for it. Don't know if this is
what really happens.
I have also made a completely flat batch. The mistake was that I forgot
to add the priming solution before bottling! Noticed the cooled
solution on the stove later that night. That sucked.
Colin
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 19:54:11
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Gerard Eberlein <dormouse@charter.net >:
>they have been at a room temp of 72 F and when I say it has no
>carb i mean zilch. Nary a champagne bubble. I will wait and if
>it doesn't carb I will still drink it. Has a really nice
>flavour.Just will be disappointed is all and don't want to make
>the same mistake if i did a mistake at all.
There could be an issue (or two) related to the amount of
headspace in your sample bottle: 1) There is more oxygen at
hand, and the yeast might be spending more time in the uptake
phase then they would normally. 2) What CO2 is being produced
must fill the excess headspace concurrent with being forced into
solution, requiring more CO2 overall.
This, on top of the early date, might explain why you're getting
*no* carbonation effect in the sample bottle. To get a
straighter picture, you could try one of your other bottles, with
normal headspace.
Just some thoughts.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 20:08:48
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:54:11 GMT, <scottsellers@mindspring.com > wrote:
> 2) What CO2 is being produced must fill the excess headspace
> concurrent with being forced into solution, requiring more CO2 overall.
On the other hand, since there is less beer there will be less CO2
going into solution. IMO, the overall amount of CO2 is only dependent
on the bottle size and the amount of pressure that is created. It shouldn't
have anything to do with how much beer is in the bottle.
However, I do agree that because the headspace is larger it will take longer
for the level of pressure to build up in the headspace to where it really
begins forcing the CO2 into the beer. IE, the speed at which CO2 disolves
into the beer depends on the pressure of the headspace. So, in that sense
it does explain why an underfilled bottle takes longer to carbonate.
John.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 18:45:06
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:42:18 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> they have been at a room temp of 72 F and when I say it has no carb i mean
> zilch. Nary a champagne bubble. I will wait and if it doesn't carb I will
> still drink it. Has a really nice flavour.Just will be disappointed is all
> and don't want to make the same mistake if i did a mistake at all.
Nothing you mentioned so far sounded like a mistake. Did you prime each
bottle individually, or did you mix the priming sugar into the whole
volume first and the fill each bottle? If you primed each one seperately,
maybe you forgot to do the last one?
John.
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 15:29:48
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Flat Beer
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Did you prime each
> bottle individually, or did you mix the priming sugar into the whole
> volume first and the fill each bottle? If you primed each one seperately,
> maybe you forgot to do the last one?
>
>
> John.
I did the whole 6 0zes boiled in 2 cups of water and dumped it in the bucket
before siphoning the beer into the bucket not by bottle.
Gerard
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