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Date: 25 Oct 2006 07:23:57
From: Sheheryar
Subject: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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Hi
I wonder if there are any post keg beer fixes. Currently I have a
batch that suffers from a disbalance between body/sweetness and
bitterness (i.e. its too thin and bitter for my palate -- not hugely so
but there is a lack of harmony). If I were to brew this again, I would
add half a pound more of 60 crystal and some more aroma hops (cascade).
Given this, are there any fixes to this problem. It is currently
carbonating in the keg. I was thinking lactose to sweeten it up but
have never used it before. Any advice would be helpful and educative.
Thanks.
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Date: 25 Oct 2006 15:25:54
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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On 25 2006 07:23:57 -0700, <sheheryarhasnain@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hi
> I wonder if there are any post keg beer fixes. Currently I have a
> batch that suffers from a disbalance between body/sweetness and
> bitterness (i.e. its too thin and bitter for my palate -- not hugely so
> but there is a lack of harmony). If I were to brew this again, I would
> add half a pound more of 60 crystal and some more aroma hops (cascade).
> Given this, are there any fixes to this problem. It is currently
> carbonating in the keg. I was thinking lactose to sweeten it up but
> have never used it before. Any advice would be helpful and educative.
If it's currently carbonating in the keg I would assume that means the beer
is pretty young? Aging (as well as carbonation) do a lot to change the
balance of body/sweetness/bitterness. I would give it some time and see
if the beer improves on it's own. Particularly carbonation in this case,
which has a big impact on the perception of body and bitterness.
One option, if you still want to tweak it, would be to brew another beer
intentionally on the opposite end of the spectrum and blend the two
together.
John.
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Date: 25 Oct 2006 07:30:29
From:
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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Sheheryar wrote:
> Hi
> I wonder if there are any post keg beer fixes. Currently I have a
> batch that suffers from a disbalance between body/sweetness and
> bitterness (i.e. its too thin and bitter for my palate -- not hugely so
> but there is a lack of harmony). If I were to brew this again, I would
> add half a pound more of 60 crystal and some more aroma hops (cascade).
> Given this, are there any fixes to this problem. It is currently
> carbonating in the keg. I was thinking lactose to sweeten it up but
> have never used it before. Any advice would be helpful and educative.
> Thanks.
8 oz of maltodextrin boiled in 2 cups of water. Adds some body and
will balance the bitterness a bit even though you don't perceive the
dextrines as sweet.
Bryan
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Date: 25 Oct 2006 19:11:12
From: Sheheryar
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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Thanks, John. I tasted it again and what it really needs is a sweet
maltiness to balance the bitterness. It fermented out a bit too dry I
feel (WLP001). With 10 lbs of US 2 Row and 0.5 lbs of 60 crystal, I
thought it would have more maltiness. I mashed it around 150 for about
1.5 hours -- interestingly last season, I had better results with the
same bix. Ok so If I waited and nothing changed in say a few weeks,
would maltodextrine along with some lactose provide the flavoring I am
missing? Is there something non-fermentable I can add to achieve this
balance?
> If it's currently carbonating in the keg I would assume that means the beer
> is pretty young? Aging (as well as carbonation) do a lot to change the
> balance of body/sweetness/bitterness. I would give it some time and see
> if the beer improves on it's own. Particularly carbonation in this case,
> which has a big impact on the perception of body and bitterness.
>
> One option, if you still want to tweak it, would be to brew another beer
> intentionally on the opposite end of the spectrum and blend the two
> together.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 26 Oct 2006 15:39:22
From: timmy
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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Sheheryar wrote:
> Thanks, John. I tasted it again and what it really needs is a sweet
> maltiness to balance the bitterness. It fermented out a bit too dry I
> feel (WLP001). With 10 lbs of US 2 Row and 0.5 lbs of 60 crystal, I
> thought it would have more maltiness. I mashed it around 150 for about
> 1.5 hours -- interestingly last season, I had better results with the
> same bix. Ok so If I waited and nothing changed in say a few weeks,
> would maltodextrine along with some lactose provide the flavoring I am
> missing? Is there something non-fermentable I can add to achieve this
> balance?
>
>
>>If it's currently carbonating in the keg I would assume that means the beer
>>is pretty young? Aging (as well as carbonation) do a lot to change the
>>balance of body/sweetness/bitterness. I would give it some time and see
>>if the beer improves on it's own. Particularly carbonation in this case,
>>which has a big impact on the perception of body and bitterness.
>>
>>One option, if you still want to tweak it, would be to brew another beer
>>intentionally on the opposite end of the spectrum and blend the two
>>together.
>>
>>
>>John.
>
>
my advice would be to wait it out if the beer is any younger then 4
weeks. aging has the effect of softening all the flavours in a beer,
especially the hops influence.
failing that you could add some more wort (unhopped) to the keg then
seal it for a week and let it ferment.
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Date: 26 Oct 2006 18:01:42
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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On 25 2006 19:11:12 -0700, <sheheryarhasnain@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Thanks, John. I tasted it again and what it really needs is a sweet
> maltiness to balance the bitterness. It fermented out a bit too dry I
> feel (WLP001). With 10 lbs of US 2 Row and 0.5 lbs of 60 crystal, I
> thought it would have more maltiness. I mashed it around 150 for about
> 1.5 hours
That's a pretty long mash. One thing to note is that the longer you
let the mash go, the more the enzymes will break the sugars down. IE,
give you more fermentable sugars and less unfermentable ones. This tends
to make for a dryer beer. I wonder if you'd be happier with a 45 minute
mash instead of a 1.5 hour one?
> -- interestingly last season, I had better results with the
> same bix. Ok so If I waited and nothing changed in say a few weeks,
> would maltodextrine along with some lactose provide the flavoring I am
> missing? Is there something non-fermentable I can add to achieve this
> balance?
Yeah, both maltodextrin and lactose are unfermentable sugars. They're
not going to taste sweet like simple table sugar does, but added to
the beer they'll give it some extra body and help balance the hops.
John.
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Date: 26 Oct 2006 07:37:40
From:
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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timmy wrote:
>
> my advice would be to wait it out if the beer is any younger then 4
> weeks. aging has the effect of softening all the flavours in a beer,
> especially the hops influence.
> failing that you could add some more wort (unhopped) to the keg then
> seal it for a week and let it ferment.
If you are adding more than a cup or two of wort I wouldn't seal the
keg. I would guess you would need to add a couple of quarts of wort to
balance the bitterness and bring out some body and maltiness. That
much wort fermenting out in a keg could make one hell of a bottle bomb
if the relief valve clogged with krausen. Several people use kegs for
secondaries, and I think a few use them as primaries. If you want to
ferment out a significant amount of wort/sugars get a quick disconnect,
put a small (6-8") length of tubing on it, loop the tubing around so
you can use a twist or zip tie to hold the tubing pointing up, stick an
airlock in it. Now place this on the gas in port, not the liquid out,
or it will get messy fast. Don't ask how I know this. :)
One of the great things about secondarying in a keg is that with a
short transfer coupler made from two QDs connected to the liquid out
ports you can rack to a serving keg with almost no sediment or hassle.
You don't even move the secondary keg. Pull off the airlock and put
the gas line on the gas in post, place the empty serving keg next to
the secondary, put the coupler between the two liquid out ports and put
the airlock QD, without the airlock, on the gas in post on the serving
keg. Turn the gas on at serving pressure and transfer. When you no
longer see beer in the transfer hose turn off the gas. Make sure you
don't forget to actually take the airlock off the QD for the transfer
otherwise "serving pressure" will remove the water for you in a way you
don't want. Once again, don't ask how I know this. ;)
Bryan
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Date: 26 Oct 2006 19:33:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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On 26 2006 07:37:40 -0700, <yournotauser@gmail.com > wrote:
> If you are adding more than a cup or two of wort I wouldn't seal the
> keg. I would guess you would need to add a couple of quarts of wort to
> balance the bitterness and bring out some body and maltiness. That
> much wort fermenting out in a keg could make one hell of a bottle bomb
> if the relief valve clogged with krausen.
I agree with you that fermenting in a sealed keg is probably just going
to cause lots of problems. However, I don't believe that it will actually
explode like a bottle bomb. I'm pretty sure that the pressure rating of the
keg is high enough that the yeast will actually shut down before the keg
explodes. MDixon did an experiment along those lines once. I think he
got the yeast to ferment up until around 40 - 60 PSI (can't remember the
exact number, but somewhere in that magnitude) and then they basically
just quite due to the pressure. A corny keg in good condition should handle
something like 150 PSI.
John.
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:38:38
From: timmy
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 26 2006 07:37:40 -0700, <yournotauser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>If you are adding more than a cup or two of wort I wouldn't seal the
>>keg. I would guess you would need to add a couple of quarts of wort to
>>balance the bitterness and bring out some body and maltiness. That
>>much wort fermenting out in a keg could make one hell of a bottle bomb
>>if the relief valve clogged with krausen.
>
>
> I agree with you that fermenting in a sealed keg is probably just going
> to cause lots of problems. However, I don't believe that it will actually
> explode like a bottle bomb. I'm pretty sure that the pressure rating of the
> keg is high enough that the yeast will actually shut down before the keg
> explodes. MDixon did an experiment along those lines once. I think he
> got the yeast to ferment up until around 40 - 60 PSI (can't remember the
> exact number, but somewhere in that magnitude) and then they basically
> just quite due to the pressure. A corny keg in good condition should handle
> something like 150 PSI.
>
>
> John.
corny kegs won't explode even if you pass 150psi.
if you look at the relief valve you'll see why, it keeps it's seal via a
spring, if you surpass it's maxium pressure that spring won't keep it's
seal, and it'll start releasing pressure.
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 14:42:56
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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On Fri, 27 2006 11:38:38 +1000, < > wrote:
> corny kegs won't explode even if you pass 150psi.
> if you look at the relief valve you'll see why, it keeps it's seal via a
> spring, if you surpass it's maxium pressure that spring won't keep it's
> seal, and it'll start releasing pressure.
Definitely true if your keg has a relief valve. I've got several that
don't though. There are a bunch of different designs for the corny lid (at
least 3 or 4 that I've seen, probably more).
Still, I don't think it would ever come to that. I doubt you would ever
have a corny explode unless you were really trying to make it do that.
John.
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:29:05
From:
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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timmy wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> > On 26 2006 07:37:40 -0700, <yournotauser@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>If you are adding more than a cup or two of wort I wouldn't seal the
> >>keg. I would guess you would need to add a couple of quarts of wort to
> >>balance the bitterness and bring out some body and maltiness. That
> >>much wort fermenting out in a keg could make one hell of a bottle bomb
> >>if the relief valve clogged with krausen.
> >
> >
> > I agree with you that fermenting in a sealed keg is probably just going
> > to cause lots of problems. However, I don't believe that it will actually
> > explode like a bottle bomb. I'm pretty sure that the pressure rating of the
> > keg is high enough that the yeast will actually shut down before the keg
> > explodes. MDixon did an experiment along those lines once. I think he
> > got the yeast to ferment up until around 40 - 60 PSI (can't remember the
> > exact number, but somewhere in that magnitude) and then they basically
> > just quite due to the pressure. A corny keg in good condition should handle
> > something like 150 PSI.
> >
> >
> > John.
>
> corny kegs won't explode even if you pass 150psi.
> if you look at the relief valve you'll see why, it keeps it's seal via a
> spring, if you surpass it's maxium pressure that spring won't keep it's
> seal, and it'll start releasing pressure.
And if the tiny relief valve clogs with krausen? I've had blowoff
tubes and airlocks clog and they have much larger diameters than a
relief valve on a corney.
Bryan
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:26:23
From:
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Fri, 27 2006 11:38:38 +1000, <> wrote:
> > corny kegs won't explode even if you pass 150psi.
> > if you look at the relief valve you'll see why, it keeps it's seal via a
> > spring, if you surpass it's maxium pressure that spring won't keep it's
> > seal, and it'll start releasing pressure.
>
> Definitely true if your keg has a relief valve. I've got several that
> don't though. There are a bunch of different designs for the corny lid (at
> least 3 or 4 that I've seen, probably more).
>
> Still, I don't think it would ever come to that. I doubt you would ever
> have a corny explode unless you were really trying to make it do that.
Quite possible. I had just finished reading about someone being killed
and seven others injured when someone threw a sankey style keg on a
fire. I wouldnt actully expect a cornie to explode because I would
expect the rubber seal on the lid to deform enough as the pressure got
high enough to vent the gas, but...
>
>
> John.
Bryan
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 18:32:16
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fixing beer imbalance after kegging
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On 27 2006 11:26:23 -0700, <yournotauser@gmail.com > wrote:
> I wouldnt actully expect a cornie to explode because I would
> expect the rubber seal on the lid to deform enough as the pressure got
> high enough to vent the gas, but...
Yeah, that'd be my guess too. Although, I'm not planning on testing the
theory.
John.
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