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Date: 19 Oct 2006 13:47:13
From:
Subject: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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I brewed up a German Pale Lager two weeks ago, and have a spare refrigerator
set up for the primary. It's set as warm as it can get... about 43 degrees. I took a
gravity measurement last night, and it's only down to 30 points from 58. How long
does this sucker take? I'm rigging up an external thermostat to hopefully set it at
more like 50 degrees.
I'm assuming this is normal. My main question is whether or not I can use the
same temp (50 or so) for secondarying the current lager as well as primarying another
using the current cake as a starter.
-Cory
--
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* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 08:39:29
From: Spitzbuben
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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> FWIW, I'm working on my first pilsner right now. I primaried it at 55F
> until the gravity readings stabilized (and it took all of 2 weeks for
> that to happen, much longer than an ale). I'm resting the primary at
> 65F (48 hour diacetyl rest) and will rack to secondary and start the
> "lagering" tomorrow (Friday evening).
> yes out!!
John's practices are perfert! This is almost the exact procedure that
I do, though I like to primary more at 48-50... I don't like to ferment
higher then 50F... Also there is no formula for the diacetyl rest...
it's dangerous to say 48 hours... especially if you are using a
different yeast stain each time... I've rested for a week and there is
NO harm... it's just insurance that you don't mare Orval RedenBOCKer's
Butter Bock (I i kinda like that, I just made that up!)... In fact
diacetyl is the same "chemical" used to artificially flavor popcorn.
There is a great test to find out if you are done with the rest....
(Two sample from the primary, one goes in the fridge, the other is
rasied to 140, held for 20 mins, then cooled to the temp of the other
sample in the fridge, if the samples smell and taste then same after
and hour of cooling BINGO, your ready to rack to the secondry and start
lagering at 31-33.
People think that lagering is like the HOLY GRAIL of brewing...
Patience is... or even LAZINESS....I one time made a lager, put in in
the cold fridge (37F) for lagering at a business I occationally visit.
Everytime I though to get it I was to lazy to drive the 35 miles to go
get it... It was a bock.... I then forgot... The business called me
four monthes later and asked if it was mine. I was driving like I
stole a car. It was some of the best beer I have every drank.
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 16:33:38
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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Spitzbuben <redrump21@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I'm working on my first pilsner right now. I primaried it at 55F
>> until the gravity readings stabilized (and it took all of 2 weeks for
>> that to happen, much longer than an ale). I'm resting the primary at
>> 65F (48 hour diacetyl rest) and will rack to secondary and start the
>> "lagering" tomorrow (Friday evening).
>> yes out!!
>
> John's practices are perfert! This is almost the exact procedure that
> I do, though I like to primary more at 48-50... I don't like to ferment
> higher then 50F... Also there is no formula for the diacetyl rest...
> it's dangerous to say 48 hours... especially if you are using a
> different yeast stain each time... I've rested for a week and there is
> NO harm... it's just insurance that you don't mare Orval RedenBOCKer's
> Butter Bock (I i kinda like that, I just made that up!)... In fact
> diacetyl is the same "chemical" used to artificially flavor popcorn.
> There is a great test to find out if you are done with the rest....
> (Two sample from the primary, one goes in the fridge, the other is
> rasied to 140, held for 20 mins, then cooled to the temp of the other
> sample in the fridge, if the samples smell and taste then same after
> and hour of cooling BINGO, your ready to rack to the secondry and start
> lagering at 31-33.
<snip >
Yep I'm going to try that test tomorrow evening after work. How much
wort do you usually thief for the samples? I had a slightly lower
yield on this batch and don't want to sacrifice much :-)
And yes - patience is a virtue in homebrewing.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 15:12:09
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneaudotmedotvt.edu wrote:
> I brewed up a German Pale Lager two weeks ago, and have a spare refrigerator
> set up for the primary. It's set as warm as it can get... about 43 degrees. I took a
> gravity measurement last night, and it's only down to 30 points from 58. How long
> does this sucker take? I'm rigging up an external thermostat to hopefully set it at
> more like 50 degrees.
>
> I'm assuming this is normal. My main question is whether or not I can use the
> same temp (50 or so) for secondarying the current lager as well as primarying another
> using the current cake as a starter.
>
> -Cory
>
FWIW, I'm working on my first pilsner right now. I primaried it at 55F
until the gravity readings stabilized (and it took all of 2 weeks for
that to happen, much longer than an ale). I'm resting the primary at
65F (48 hour diacetyl rest) and will rack to secondary and start the
"lagering" tomorrow (Friday evening).
Lager primaries should be slower, though, as John noted, 43F is almost
too cold for a primary, IMO and according to the reading I've done.
JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 22:36:55
From:
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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: FWIW, I'm working on my first pilsner right now. I primaried it at 55F
: until the gravity readings stabilized (and it took all of 2 weeks for
: that to happen, much longer than an ale). I'm resting the primary at
: 65F (48 hour diacetyl rest) and will rack to secondary and start the
: "lagering" tomorrow (Friday evening).
That was my plan this weekend (a day or two diacetyl rest), but it doesn't look like it's quite done yet.
: Lager primaries should be slower, though, as John noted, 43F is almost
: too cold for a primary, IMO and according to the reading I've done.
Hrm.... my reading as well. I was really hoping to "fill the pipeline" with a couple of lagers now that I've got a good number
of kegs of ale. I won't need as many carboys for them for awhile.
The lager thing for me right now is more of a curiosity than anything. From the commercial (and other homebrew) lagers I've
tried, I tend to prefer the flavor complexity of ales. I'm also too impatient. I was sorta hoping to "split the difference" between
primary and lagering temps to have a couple in the fridge at the same time without having to dedicate too much hardware to the task.
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 14:51:33
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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On Thu, 19 2006 13:47:13 +0000 (UTC), <papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu > wrote:
> I brewed up a German Pale Lager two weeks ago, and have a spare refrigerator
> set up for the primary. It's set as warm as it can get... about 43 degrees. I took a
> gravity measurement last night, and it's only down to 30 points from 58. How long
> does this sucker take? I'm rigging up an external thermostat to hopefully set it at
> more like 50 degrees.
Lagers generally take a lot longer than ales. Also, 43F is pretty cold for
a lager primary fermentation, which will make it even slower.
> I'm assuming this is normal. My main question is whether or not I can use the
> same temp (50 or so) for secondarying the current lager as well as primarying another
> using the current cake as a starter.
I don't know, probably. Typically the "lagering" is done at close to
freezing temps, IE in the low 30s. I don't know if people usually do a
secondary for their lagers before moving on to the actual lagering, or if
the usual procedure is primary straight to lagering.
John.
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 17:36:34
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> I brewed up a German Pale Lager two weeks ago, and have a spare refrigerator
> set up for the primary. It's set as warm as it can get... about 43 degrees. I took a
> gravity measurement last night, and it's only down to 30 points from 58. How long
> does this sucker take? I'm rigging up an external thermostat to hopefully set it at
> more like 50 degrees.
>
> I'm assuming this is normal. My main question is whether or not I can use the
> same temp (50 or so) for secondarying the current lager as well as primarying another
> using the current cake as a starter.
>
> -Cory
>
That's very cold -- I ferment cold, but rarely below 46. I might start
that low and let it rise to 48 or so. I imagine that's the source of
your slow ferment -- but there are other possibilities as well.
--
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 12:17:04
From: Spitzbuben
Subject: Re: First lager fermenting S L O W L Y
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I have fine results with 3-4 oz. take enough to do a gravity
reading...
good luck... let me know if you need an address to send samples... j/k
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