First AG - Recipe Suggestions

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Date: 15 Jun 2006 13:15:32
From: brian@yahoo.com
Subject: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

I am poised on the edge of a bold new adventure. I plan to leave the
crutch of extract behind and dive headfirst into the realm of All Grain
Brewing!! The only obstacle left is deciding what to brew. Given that
this is a first time into uncharted territory I assume that a rich
flavored, low-moderate gravity beer would be a good starting point as
it will require less grains and less exacting standards (rather then a
pilsner or something less forgiving). I'm thinking of doing an Oatmeal
stout, but really open to anything that will go down well in the winter
(I'll be doing the brew late summer/early fall). Any suggestion on
style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?

Date: 16 Jun 2006 03:41:43
From: QD Steve
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

"brian@yahoo.com" <brian.sico@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1150402532.779755.249220@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I am poised on the edge of a bold new adventure. I plan to leave the
> crutch of extract behind and dive headfirst into the realm of All Grain
> Brewing!! The only obstacle left is deciding what to brew. Given that
> this is a first time into uncharted territory I assume that a rich
> flavored, low-moderate gravity beer would be a good starting point as
> it will require less grains and less exacting standards (rather then a
> pilsner or something less forgiving). I'm thinking of doing an Oatmeal
> stout, but really open to anything that will go down well in the winter
> (I'll be doing the brew late summer/early fall). Any suggestion on
> style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?
>
John Palmers book on How to Brew has some simple all grain recipes bundled
together with enough text and pictures on what to expect and what can go
wrong. It's a great companion and you can flip through the pages stage by
stage as you brew.
One thing is almost certain on your first brew - you're going to miss a step
or stage or ingredient and try to patch it up later. If you got his book at
your side, then the chances of things going awry are greatly reduced. And
you will probably learn more on your first batch as well. Good luck.
Steve W (in Aus)

Date: 15 Jun 2006 14:36:22
From: yddraig
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

brian@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am poised on the edge of a bold new adventure. I plan to leave the
> crutch of extract behind and dive headfirst into the realm of All Grain
> Brewing!! The only obstacle left is deciding what to brew. Given that
> this is a first time into uncharted territory I assume that a rich
> flavored, low-moderate gravity beer would be a good starting point as
> it will require less grains and less exacting standards (rather then a
> pilsner or something less forgiving). I'm thinking of doing an Oatmeal
> stout, but really open to anything that will go down well in the winter
> (I'll be doing the brew late summer/early fall). Any suggestion on
> style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?

For your first AG follow the K.I.S.S. principal (keep it simple
stupid). There will be snags you never thought about or considered.
Keep a cool head, remember your theory and use McGyver as an
inspiration. Try an IPA or a West Coast Pale Ale. Keep the grain bill
simple, for a 5gal batch use 15 pounds of 2 Schreier 2 row, use a
program to calculate the hops. With the above grain your mash should
be complete in 20 to 30 min, use Iodine for a test, black means
conversion not complete, no color change converion is done. Then
sparge, boil and ferment.

Good Luck.

PS
I assume that you are going to use a liquid yeast, don't go to all
this work and then use a dried yeast. Wyeast 2112 is a fantastic
yeast. It's the classic Anchor Steam yeast.

Date: 16 Jun 2006 22:01:10
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

yddraig <yddraig@gmail.com >:

[...]
>For your first AG follow the K.I.S.S. principal (keep it simple
>stupid). There will be snags you never thought about or considered.
>Keep a cool head, remember your theory and use McGyver as an
>inspiration. Try an IPA or a West Coast Pale Ale. Keep the grain bill
>simple, for a 5gal batch use 15 pounds of 2 Schreier 2 row, use a
>program to calculate the hops. With the above grain your mash should
>be complete in 20 to 30 min, use Iodine for a test, black means
>conversion not complete, no color change converion is done. Then
>sparge, boil and ferment.

I'm digging the simple grainbill. But the iodine test? NOt
simple, and not necessary. Instead of rushing the mash, just let
it go an hour, know it's done, and forget the iodine.

>Good Luck.

>PS
>I assume that you are going to use a liquid yeast, don't go to
>all this work and then use a dried yeast. Wyeast 2112 is a
>fantastic yeast. It's the classic Anchor Steam yeast.

Fine, if the OP wants to make a steam beer. Danstar nottingham
would be simpler, give excellent results, and be to style for
many, many brews.

Scott S

--
Scott Sellers

Date: 19 Jun 2006 17:46:45
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

On 15 Jun 2006 14:36:22 -0700, <yddraig@gmail.com > wrote:
> For your first AG follow the K.I.S.S. principal (keep it simple
> stupid). There will be snags you never thought about or considered.

Definitely good advice.

> be complete in 20 to 30 min, use Iodine for a test, black means
> conversion not complete, no color change converion is done.

IMO, do *not* do an iodine test. It isn't necessary, and the test is
very easy to mess up which will give you incorrect results. Iodine conversion
tests probably cause more problems than they solve. Let the mash go for
45 to 60 minutes (not 20 to 30), and unless you are doing something really
wrong then you should be able to just assume that conversion is complete.
There should be no reason you have to test it.

> I assume that you are going to use a liquid yeast, don't go to all
> this work and then use a dried yeast. Wyeast 2112 is a fantastic
> yeast. It's the classic Anchor Steam yeast.

There is nothing wrong with dry yeast. IMO, it's much easier to use then
liquid and is every bit as high quality. Use whichever you prefer.

John.

Date: 19 Jun 2006 19:42:57
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2006 14:36:22 -0700, <yddraig@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For your first AG follow the K.I.S.S. principal (keep it simple
>> stupid). There will be snags you never thought about or considered.
>
> Definitely good advice.
>
>> be complete in 20 to 30 min, use Iodine for a test, black means
>> conversion not complete, no color change converion is done.
>
> IMO, do *not* do an iodine test. It isn't necessary, and the test is
> very easy to mess up which will give you incorrect results. Iodine conversion
> tests probably cause more problems than they solve. Let the mash go for
> 45 to 60 minutes (not 20 to 30), and unless you are doing something really
> wrong then you should be able to just assume that conversion is complete.
> There should be no reason you have to test it.
>

I fussed around with an iodine test for my first couple mashes and
never, ever, ever thought my mash was "done". Finally I dropped it
completely and just mash for 70-75 minutes and all seems to work
fine. Fogettaboutit.

>> I assume that you are going to use a liquid yeast, don't go to all
>> this work and then use a dried yeast. Wyeast 2112 is a fantastic
>> yeast. It's the classic Anchor Steam yeast.
>
> There is nothing wrong with dry yeast. IMO, it's much easier to use then
> liquid and is every bit as high quality. Use whichever you prefer.
>
>
> John.

I've made most of my batches with WL vials and big starters, but I've
made a few of late with Nottingham dry yeast. Works great, is
delicious, attenuates like hell and is inexpensive. Dry yeast seems
fine to me.

-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!

Date: 15 Jun 2006 20:51:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

On 15 Jun 2006 13:15:32 -0700, <brian.sico@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am poised on the edge of a bold new adventure. I plan to leave the
> crutch of extract behind and dive headfirst into the realm of All Grain
> Brewing!! The only obstacle left is deciding what to brew. Given that
> this is a first time into uncharted territory I assume that a rich
> flavored, low-moderate gravity beer would be a good starting point as
> it will require less grains and less exacting standards (rather then a
> pilsner or something less forgiving).

Assuming you like the styles, I usually recommend porters or stouts for
a first time brew (whether first extract or first AG attempt). IMO you're
right in your thinking of picking a style that will help to hide any minor
flaws, etc. It'd be good to eventually learn that you do have flaws in your
process in order to know what you need to work on improving, but IMO, it's
also a good idea to pick something for a first try that gives you a better
chance of being happy with the results. That way you don't get discouraged
if everything isn't quite right. IMO, it's easier to make a good porter or
stout than it is to make a lighter (color and/or flavor) beer.

> I'm thinking of doing an Oatmeal
> stout, but really open to anything that will go down well in the winter
> (I'll be doing the brew late summer/early fall). Any suggestion on
> style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?

I would not recommend an oatmeal stout. IMO, using adjuncts (like oatmeal)
that are notorious for causing stuck sparges would probably just end up
causing you a lot of headache and frustration for your first try.

John.

Date: 15 Jun 2006 16:30:35
From: Drew Avis
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

"brian@yahoo.com" <brian.sico@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1150402532.779755.249220@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I Any suggestion on
> style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?

Congratulations on going all-grain, Brian, you won't regret it! Your idea
of an oatmeal stout is good, though I'd make it simpler and just go for a
regular Irish stout. Probably the easiest and most forgiving style would be
a brown ale, with a wide range of acceptable gravity, colour, maltiness, and
bitterness. The dark grains help reach proper mash pH, if that's a concern.

Drew
www.strangebrew.ca

Date: 15 Jun 2006 15:29:43
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

brian@yahoo.com <brian.sico@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am poised on the edge of a bold new adventure. I plan to leave the
> crutch of extract behind and dive headfirst into the realm of All Grain
> Brewing!! The only obstacle left is deciding what to brew. Given that
> this is a first time into uncharted territory I assume that a rich
> flavored, low-moderate gravity beer would be a good starting point as
> it will require less grains and less exacting standards (rather then a
> pilsner or something less forgiving). I'm thinking of doing an Oatmeal
> stout, but really open to anything that will go down well in the winter
> (I'll be doing the brew late summer/early fall). Any suggestion on
> style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?
>

Go for a simply Pale Ale or a Stout. In fact, I recommend a stout.

10% Roasted Barley
10% Flaked Barley
80% English Two-Row (Maris Otter is good!)
East Kent Goldings Hops (bittering @ 60min)

Aim for 1.045 OG and 40 IBU.

Use a single-infusion mash with a ratio of about 1.25 to 1.33 qts/lb @
151degF for 60 min.

A very general recipe that will be very forgiving. Should mash fine and if
you are worried about conversion, just use an American Two-Row malt as it has
a little more diastatic power [I wouldn't worry though].

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Date: 16 Jun 2006 12:57:17
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

brian@yahoo.com <brian.sico@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am poised on the edge of a bold new adventure. I plan to leave the
> crutch of extract behind and dive headfirst into the realm of All Grain
> Brewing!! The only obstacle left is deciding what to brew. Given that
> this is a first time into uncharted territory I assume that a rich
> flavored, low-moderate gravity beer would be a good starting point as
> it will require less grains and less exacting standards (rather then a
> pilsner or something less forgiving). I'm thinking of doing an Oatmeal
> stout, but really open to anything that will go down well in the winter
> (I'll be doing the brew late summer/early fall). Any suggestion on
> style and/or recipes for this bold new venture?
>

I agree with the all suggestions for Palmer's book/website. May I also
suggest "Designing Great Beers" by Daniels as indispensible when
creating recipes for a given style.

Just to throw in my 0.02 USD my first "mostly grain" batch (before I
got my 5 gallon cooler) was a butt-simple English PA designed from
Daniels' book:

7.0 lbs Marris Otter
0.5 lbs Simpson's medium crystal malt
1.875 lbs Munton's XL DME
Nottingham Ale Yeast
2 ozs Fuggles (60)
0.5 oz Goldings (30)
0.5 oz Goldings (2)
Target OG: 1.050
Mash OG: 1.049
Full wort OG: 1.045 :-)

Just about a 3 gallon mash. Simple, uncomplicated and
dee-licious. Also, I've found mashing in a cooler to be *much* easier
than it ever was in a kettle. YMMV.

HTH - JB

-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!

Date: 16 Jun 2006 04:38:04
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

Date: 19 Jun 2006 09:30:31
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> I second that motion to skip the iodine test. There is a potential for a
> frustrating false positive due to husk material.

If a person insists on doing an iodine test (I never do), the easiest
way to get it right is to do a vorlauf cycle to get clear wort, then
pull the sample from the tun as it runs clear. Don't just dip into the
tun with a spoon and get a sample.

But as everyone says, after 60 minutes it WILL be converted, unless
you've monumentally screwed up (big dough balls in the mash, completely
bogus strike temp, etc.) But if you're screwing up your mashes, you'll
probably screw up your iodine check also.

Scott

Date: 19 Jun 2006 08:28:59
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

yddraig wrote:

> How is the Iodine test NOT simple? You extract some liquid, about 1/2
> teaspoon) from your mash tun, place it on a saucer and place a drop of
> iodine in it and watch for a color change. Why drag the mash out any
> longer than necessary? The sparge will take longer than the mash.

It's also simple to do it wrong and get incorrect results. Not to
mention that a longer mash time gives you a more fermentable dextrin
profile, so mashing for the shortest possible time isn't always a good
idea.

------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com

Date: 19 Jun 2006 04:46:54
From: yddraig
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

Scott Sellers wrote:
> yddraig <yddraig@gmail.com>:
>
> [...]
> >For your first AG follow the K.I.S.S. principal (keep it simple
> >stupid). There will be snags you never thought about or considered.
> >Keep a cool head, remember your theory and use McGyver as an
> >inspiration. Try an IPA or a West Coast Pale Ale. Keep the grain bill
> >simple, for a 5gal batch use 15 pounds of 2 Schreier 2 row, use a
> >program to calculate the hops. With the above grain your mash should
> >be complete in 20 to 30 min, use Iodine for a test, black means
> >conversion not complete, no color change converion is done. Then
> >sparge, boil and ferment.
>
> I'm digging the simple grainbill. But the iodine test? NOt
> simple, and not necessary. Instead of rushing the mash, just let
> it go an hour, know it's done, and forget the iodine.
>
> >Good Luck.
>
> >PS
> >I assume that you are going to use a liquid yeast, don't go to
> >all this work and then use a dried yeast. Wyeast 2112 is a
> >fantastic yeast. It's the classic Anchor Steam yeast.
>
> Fine, if the OP wants to make a steam beer. Danstar nottingham
> would be simpler, give excellent results, and be to style for
> many, many brews.
>
> Scott S
>
> --
> Scott Sellers

Date: 19 Jun 2006 07:22:40
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

yddraig <yddraig@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> How is the Iodine test NOT simple? You extract some liquid, about 1/2
> teaspoon) from your mash tun, place it on a saucer and place a drop of
> iodine in it and watch for a color change. Why drag the mash out any
> longer than necessary? The sparge will take longer than the mash.
>

I second that motion to skip the iodine test. There is a potential for a
frustrating false positive due to husk material. If you do everything even
remotely correct, you will have a complete conversion. Just take a small
taste of the wort. If it is sweet, there is no reason to believe it is
partially converted. As another poster said, just give it 60 minutes.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Date: 19 Jun 2006 17:55:43
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: First AG - Recipe Suggestions

On 19 Jun 2006 04:46:54 -0700, <yddraig@gmail.com > wrote:
> How is the Iodine test NOT simple? You extract some liquid, about 1/2
> teaspoon) from your mash tun, place it on a saucer and place a drop of
> iodine in it and watch for a color change. Why drag the mash out any
> longer than necessary? The sparge will take longer than the mash.

It's very easy to get a false reading, making the brewer think that their
mash is not done yet, when in reality everything is fine. There's also no
reason that you actually have to do one. It has the potential for
giving you bad information, and if you do get accurate information from it
the information it provides, IMO, isn't very useful.

John.