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Date: 25 Sep 2006 08:25:37
From: Scotty B
Subject: Fermentation ...stuck?
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Hello all. I am currently brewing Midwest's Big River Brown Ale
(http://tinyurl.com/kjqnv). I began brewing on 27 Aug (OG 1.046). Two
weeks later (09 Sep) I transferred to secondary (SG 1.020). On Friday
(22 Sep) I took another SG reading and it was only down to 1.019. On
the instructions that came with the kit, it says the OG should be
1.044-1.048 and the FG should be 1.010-1.012.
The current temp is 66, but has ranged from 66-72 in the last six
weeks. Also, it is still bubbling (sort of). Each time I go down to
check on it (every day or two) if I tap the airlock the bubble will
come out.
Any ideas as to why it may not be going down to the expected FG?
Thanks,
Scotty B
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 19:23:24
From: Lefty Skywalker
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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Scotty B wrote:
> Hello all. I am currently brewing Midwest's Big River Brown Ale
> (http://tinyurl.com/kjqnv). I began brewing on 27 Aug (OG 1.046). Two
> weeks later (09 Sep) I transferred to secondary (SG 1.020). On Friday
> (22 Sep) I took another SG reading and it was only down to 1.019. On
> the instructions that came with the kit, it says the OG should be
> 1.044-1.048 and the FG should be 1.010-1.012.
> The current temp is 66, but has ranged from 66-72 in the last six
> weeks. Also, it is still bubbling (sort of). Each time I go down to
> check on it (every day or two) if I tap the airlock the bubble will
> come out.
> Any ideas as to why it may not be going down to the expected FG?
I posted on this subject before and got the following:
1. Remember to correct for temperature.
2. Extract sometimes just doesn't get there.
3. Might be yeast health.
4. Does it taste good? Yes? Then bottle it and don't worry about it.
--
Daniel O. Miller
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein
WWYD? (-o-) <* > Genesis 49:17
Real email address: darth dot lefty at golf mike able india lima.
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 20:53:28
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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"Scotty B" <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159197937.402861.43550@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Hello all. I am currently brewing Midwest's Big River Brown Ale
> (http://tinyurl.com/kjqnv). I began brewing on 27 Aug (OG 1.046). Two
> weeks later (09 Sep) I transferred to secondary (SG 1.020). On Friday
> (22 Sep) I took another SG reading and it was only down to 1.019. On
> the instructions that came with the kit, it says the OG should be
> 1.044-1.048 and the FG should be 1.010-1.012.
> The current temp is 66, but has ranged from 66-72 in the last six
> weeks. Also, it is still bubbling (sort of). Each time I go down to
> check on it (every day or two) if I tap the airlock the bubble will
> come out.
> Any ideas as to why it may not be going down to the expected FG?
With extract kits, the instructions always specify a final gravity way lower
than reality. Several brands of extract are notoriously bad attenuators,
that is, they have a lot of unfermentable sugars that make it very difficult
to get lower than an FG of about 1.018. If you want the FG to be lower next
time, substitute a pound of extract for a pound of regular table sugar. It
shouldn't affect the flavor much, but will thin the beer out a little bit,
and the alcohol level will also get kicked up a notch.
You could even boil up a half pound to a pound of sugar in a little water,
let it cool (of course), and add it directly to the fermenter right now.
Then give it a week or so to ferment out completely again. This won't lower
your final gravity, but it will thin out the beer a little bit and bump up
your alcohol to more of what you expected. Go for it. I would if I were
you.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 04:26:12
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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David M. Taylor wrote:
> With extract kits, the instructions always specify a final gravity way lower
> than reality.
This is my third extract kit from Midwest and both of the others got
down to expected FG.
> You could even boil up a half pound to a pound of sugar in a little water,
> let it cool (of course), and add it directly to the fermenter right now.
> Then give it a week or so to ferment out completely again. This won't lower
> your final gravity...
Why wouldn't it lower the final gravity? I can see how it would go up
right after you add the sugar, but with something so fermentable, one
could expect it to be mostly converted to alcohol, so in the end,
wouldn't you essentially be diluting the beer with alcohol, thereby
lowering SG? Side note: if I did this, I wouldn't want to aerate again,
right?
Thanks again,
Scotty B
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 16:39:37
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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"Scotty B" <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159356372.615144.295480@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> David M. Taylor wrote:
>> With extract kits, the instructions always specify a final gravity way
>> lower
>> than reality.
>
> This is my third extract kit from Midwest and both of the others got
> down to expected FG.
Lucky you. Many extract kits don't attenuate properly. In this third case,
I can't be absolutely sure what's going on. Could be poor yeast health, not
enough yeast nutrients, possibly a bad batch of extract, lower temperature
fermentation, fermentation isn't complete yet, who knows, there are a lot of
variables. It's frustrating when this happens. You could try adding extra
yeast and hope for the best. Or rouse your existing yeast, add a little
yeast energizer, and give it more time to ferment.
>> You could even boil up a half pound to a pound of sugar in a little
>> water,
>> let it cool (of course), and add it directly to the fermenter right now.
>> Then give it a week or so to ferment out completely again. This won't
>> lower
>> your final gravity...
>
> Why wouldn't it lower the final gravity? I can see how it would go up
> right after you add the sugar, but with something so fermentable, one
> could expect it to be mostly converted to alcohol, so in the end,
> wouldn't you essentially be diluting the beer with alcohol, thereby
> lowering SG? Side note: if I did this, I wouldn't want to aerate again,
> right?
Hmm.... you know, I think you might be right. I guess I'm not completely
sure. The two sides of my brain are duking it out right now. Anyone know
the right answer?
No, don't aerate.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 00:55:08
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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David M. Taylor <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com >:
>"Scotty B" <michaellasalle@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1159356372.615144.295480@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> David M. Taylor wrote:
[...]
>>> You could even boil up a half pound to a pound of sugar in a
>>> little water, let it cool (of course), and add it directly to
>>> the fermenter right now. Then give it a week or so to
>>> ferment out completely again. This won't lower your final
>>> gravity...
>>
>> Why wouldn't it lower the final gravity? I can see how it
>> would go up right after you add the sugar, but with something
>> so fermentable, one could expect it to be mostly converted to
>> alcohol, so in the end, wouldn't you essentially be diluting
>> the beer with alcohol, thereby lowering SG? Side note: if I
>> did this, I wouldn't want to aerate again, right?
>Hmm.... you know, I think you might be right. I guess I'm not
>completely sure. The two sides of my brain are duking it out
>right now. Anyone know the right answer?
I think your first instinct is basically correct. If you aren't
adding much water at all, the existant non-fermentable gravity
points have nowhere to go -- nowhere to dilute to. The
additional alcohol would thin the beer somewhat, but said alcohol
would also contain the same unfermentables.
It seems to me, if the OP really wants to thin the beer, he
should probably add significant water (maybe a gallon?) along
with the sugar.
cheers,
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 15:09:02
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:39:37 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com > wrote:
>>> You could even boil up a half pound to a pound of sugar in a little
>>> water,
>>> let it cool (of course), and add it directly to the fermenter right now.
>>> Then give it a week or so to ferment out completely again. This won't
>>> lower
>>> your final gravity...
>>
>> Why wouldn't it lower the final gravity? I can see how it would go up
>> right after you add the sugar, but with something so fermentable, one
>> could expect it to be mostly converted to alcohol, so in the end,
>> wouldn't you essentially be diluting the beer with alcohol, thereby
>> lowering SG? Side note: if I did this, I wouldn't want to aerate again,
>> right?
>
> Hmm.... you know, I think you might be right. I guess I'm not completely
> sure. The two sides of my brain are duking it out right now. Anyone know
> the right answer?
Theoretically the extra alcohol will lower the FG a little bit. It's
probably not going to be significant though.
John.
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Date: 29 Sep 2006 04:48:43
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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David M. Taylor wrote:
> Lucky you. Many extract kits don't attenuate properly. In this third case,
> I can't be absolutely sure what's going on. Could be poor yeast health, not
> enough yeast nutrients, possibly a bad batch of extract, lower temperature
> fermentation, fermentation isn't complete yet, who knows, there are a lot of
> variables. It's frustrating when this happens.
Perhaps a few more details are in order. We'll call this current beer
'Beer B'. 'Beer A' was started on 20 Aug. On 27 Aug, I racked 'Beer A'
to secondary, leaving the yeast cake/trub in primary. I prepared 'Beer
B' and poured the wort into the primary on top of said yeast cake/trub.
On a side note and possibly unrelated, I bottled 'Beer A' on 9 Sep. I
have opened a few on the last couple of weekends and they are not well
carbonated. However, I think this is likely due to not mixing in the
priming sugar well enough before bottling. (A quick question related to
priming sugar: why do you have to let the sugar solution cool before
adding? Isn't five gallons enough for the heat to dissipate?)
> You could try adding extra
> yeast and hope for the best. Or rouse your existing yeast, add a little
> yeast energizer, and give it more time to ferment.
When you say 'rouse' the yeast, do you mean just give the carboy a
swirl to get some resuspended? Also... 'yeast energizer'?
Thanks again,
Scotty B
"Happiness is nothing more than good health and a bad memory." - Albert
Schweitzer
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Date: 29 Sep 2006 23:35:25
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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"Scotty B" <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159530523.291960.158880@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> David M. Taylor wrote:
>> Lucky you. Many extract kits don't attenuate properly. In this third
>> case,
>> I can't be absolutely sure what's going on. Could be poor yeast health,
>> not
>> enough yeast nutrients, possibly a bad batch of extract, lower
>> temperature
>> fermentation, fermentation isn't complete yet, who knows, there are a lot
>> of
>> variables. It's frustrating when this happens.
>
> Perhaps a few more details are in order. We'll call this current beer
> 'Beer B'. 'Beer A' was started on 20 Aug. On 27 Aug, I racked 'Beer A'
> to secondary, leaving the yeast cake/trub in primary. I prepared 'Beer
> B' and poured the wort into the primary on top of said yeast cake/trub.
That certainly doesn't sound like it should be any problem relating to a
lack of yeast or poor yeast health. Maybe you got some poor extract in this
latest "Beer B" kit. And again, maybe fermentation just needs a little more
time, due to high gravity or fermentation temperature. What is the
temperature?
> On a side note and possibly unrelated, I bottled 'Beer A' on 9 Sep. I
> have opened a few on the last couple of weekends and they are not well
> carbonated. However, I think this is likely due to not mixing in the
> priming sugar well enough before bottling.
Um, it might be a mixing problem, but again I'd wonder, what is the
conditioning temperature? If the temperature is too cold, it could take
forever to carbonate. I typically leave my bottles in a high temperature
area, like on top of my refrigerator, for a week or two until they are
adequately carbonated, prior to cellaring or putting into the refrigerator.
> (A quick question related to
> priming sugar: why do you have to let the sugar solution cool before
> adding? Isn't five gallons enough for the heat to dissipate?)
You don't really need to. You're right, 5 gallons of cool beer is plenty to
cool down a cup of sugar water, IMHO. Just be sure it is well blended.
>> You could try adding extra
>> yeast and hope for the best. Or rouse your existing yeast, add a little
>> yeast energizer, and give it more time to ferment.
>
> When you say 'rouse' the yeast, do you mean just give the carboy a
> swirl to get some resuspended? Also... 'yeast energizer'?
Exactly, just swirl a bit to resuspend. The yeast may have grown a little
tired and might need a lift to get going a bit more.
Yeast energizer is a standard brewing chemical available at most LHBSs. If
they don't have it, you could try yeast nutrient. Although, as I discussed
earlier, yeast health is probably not a problem, based on the fact that you
sat your wort on top of a giant yeast cake from a previous batch. But it
sure wouldn't hurt to put a bit of yeast energizer and/or nutrient in the
brew, just for the heck of it to see if it helps.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 07:21:27
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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I was also thinking... if time and/or resuspension doesn't help, do you
think it would be alright to buy a different yeast strain to perhaps
ferment some different sugars? (Don't know if I put that right)
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 19:18:48
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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"Scotty B" <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159712487.632710.297860@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I was also thinking... if time and/or resuspension doesn't help, do you
> think it would be alright to buy a different yeast strain to perhaps
> ferment some different sugars? (Don't know if I put that right)
If you're unhappy with the final gravity, it might be worth a shot. Use a
strain that is known for very high attenuation. But if you do try it, make
sure you pitch a huge quantity -- dry yeast would be perfect for this,
otherwise if you want to use liquid yeast, make a huge starter first. Also,
give it enough time to be able to have an effect. If you pitch new yeast
but only give it a week to ferment out, you could be asking for trouble.
You could also consider adding Beano as an absolute last resort. Half of a
tablet, crushed, is PLENTY for 5 gallons. However, in my experience, Beano
usually ruins good beer, so it should only be used if you've tried
absolutely everything else. If you do ultimately decide to add Beano, I
would suggest giving it at least a couple of months to ferment out prior to
bottling... seriously. If you don't, it keeps right on fermenting and you
could end up with bottle bombs. I know this from experience. Don't use
Beano unless you are completely desperate. For now, you should stick with
playing with the yeast and/or adding sugar.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:12:47
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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On Sun, 1 2006 19:18:48 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com > wrote:
> You could also consider adding Beano as an absolute last resort.
I've forgotten some of the history of this thread, but do we know that the
fermentation has completed with a high gravity due to the sugar profile
versus being an actual stuck fermentation?
Beano will only "work" for the first, it'll do more harm to the second.
IMO, you definitely want to know which of the above scenarios apply before
even thinking about using Beano.
John.
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:32:38
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Sun, 1 2006 19:18:48 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com> wrote:
>> You could also consider adding Beano as an absolute last resort.
>
> I've forgotten some of the history of this thread, but do we know that the
> fermentation has completed with a high gravity due to the sugar profile
> versus being an actual stuck fermentation?
>
> Beano will only "work" for the first, it'll do more harm to the second.
> IMO, you definitely want to know which of the above scenarios apply before
> even thinking about using Beano.
One possible way to find out would be to pull a sample of the beer with
some yeast into a hydrometer jar or other container. Add one
well-crushed beano tab and cover with foil. If the ferment restarts, the
sugar profile is at fault -- if not, the yeast is at fault.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 16:07:41
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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On Mon, 02 2006 10:32:38 -0500, <mikey666@666swampgas.666com > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 2006 19:18:48 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com> wrote:
>>> You could also consider adding Beano as an absolute last resort.
>>
>> I've forgotten some of the history of this thread, but do we know that the
>> fermentation has completed with a high gravity due to the sugar profile
>> versus being an actual stuck fermentation?
>>
>> Beano will only "work" for the first, it'll do more harm to the second.
>> IMO, you definitely want to know which of the above scenarios apply before
>> even thinking about using Beano.
>
> One possible way to find out would be to pull a sample of the beer with
> some yeast into a hydrometer jar or other container. Add one
> well-crushed beano tab and cover with foil. If the ferment restarts, the
> sugar profile is at fault -- if not, the yeast is at fault.
Yeah, just be sure to determine whether it restarts by using a hydrometer.
I would imagine that adding a tablet to beer containing residual CO2 is
going to start foaming, regardless of whether any actual fermentation is
occuring.
John.
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 11:25:23
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Mon, 02 2006 10:32:38 -0500, <mikey666@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>> On Sun, 1 2006 19:18:48 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com> wrote:
>>>> You could also consider adding Beano as an absolute last resort.
>>> I've forgotten some of the history of this thread, but do we know that the
>>> fermentation has completed with a high gravity due to the sugar profile
>>> versus being an actual stuck fermentation?
>>>
>>> Beano will only "work" for the first, it'll do more harm to the second.
>>> IMO, you definitely want to know which of the above scenarios apply before
>>> even thinking about using Beano.
>> One possible way to find out would be to pull a sample of the beer with
>> some yeast into a hydrometer jar or other container. Add one
>> well-crushed beano tab and cover with foil. If the ferment restarts, the
>> sugar profile is at fault -- if not, the yeast is at fault.
>
> Yeah, just be sure to determine whether it restarts by using a hydrometer.
> I would imagine that adding a tablet to beer containing residual CO2 is
> going to start foaming, regardless of whether any actual fermentation is
> occuring.
Yep -- that's why I suggested just using a hydrometer jar (although I
check mine with a refractometer). No need to sanitize anything, as we
don't really care about how the beer in the hydrometer turns out -- just
the gravity.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:08:05
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fermentation ...stuck?
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On 1 2006 07:21:27 -0700, <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote:
> I was also thinking... if time and/or resuspension doesn't help, do you
> think it would be alright to buy a different yeast strain to perhaps
> ferment some different sugars? (Don't know if I put that right)
I don't think it would make much difference. The strains tend to be close
enough together that you're not going to get a significant attenuation
change just by swapping the yeast for a different kind.
John.
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