| |
Main
Date: 24 Nov 2006 06:38:56
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Fast mash without mashout?
|
I want to get a very dextrinous wort for my Scottish ale. My plan is
to mash high- 158 F, for only 45 minutes. The first runnings will be
boiled separatley for caramelization.
In order not to sacrifice yield and minimize starch, I'm going to batch
sparge with water at 160 F, so that some conversion will continue in
the more dilute second and third runnings.
Do you think this will do what I want?
John
|
|
| |
Date: 24 Nov 2006 09:32:39
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
John Krehbiel wrote:
> I want to get a very dextrinous wort for my Scottish ale. My plan is
> to mash high- 158 F, for only 45 minutes. The first runnings will be
> boiled separatley for caramelization.
>
> In order not to sacrifice yield and minimize starch, I'm going to batch
> sparge with water at 160 F, so that some conversion will continue in
> the more dilute second and third runnings.
>
> Do you think this will do what I want?
>
> John
>
Unless you routinely get your mash bed above 170° and hold it there for
15 or 20 minutes before sparging, you are essentially doing this process
anyway. It takes that long for the enzymes to denature. That's why the
mashout is really inconsequential in batch sparging other than for
decreasing the viscosity of the wort for quicker draining.
Also in the very short time that your sparge water is in the mash tun
after draining the first runnings, very little additional conversion
will take place. Minimizing starch would be better done by extending
the mash to 60 minutes, although at 45 minutes conversion should be
complete. Extra time beyond that would tend to break down the sugar
chains a bit for a slightly less dextrinous wort.
In short, doing what you are planning will work just fine though you
probably won't notice any difference.
Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
|
| |
Date: 25 Nov 2006 18:11:20
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
John Krehbiel wrote:
> I want to get a very dextrinous wort for my Scottish ale. My plan is
> to mash high- 158 F, for only 45 minutes. The first runnings will be
> boiled separatley for caramelization.
>
> In order not to sacrifice yield and minimize starch, I'm going to batch
> sparge with water at 160 F, so that some conversion will continue in
> the more dilute second and third runnings.
>
> Do you think this will do what I want?
I wouldn't worry about it. 158F at 45 minutes will convert completely.
It would probably convert at that temp inside of 20 minutes.
In theory, it could convert at 158 in 10 minutes -- but that would be
pushing it.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
| |
Date: 26 Nov 2006 13:27:23
From:
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
I would be careful using sparge water above 165...you can start to
flirt with astrengency problems. I agree with the former poster...you
wont notice a difference. Keep your mash temp on the high side like you
had intended...and you can add a little lactose to the boil if you are
going for more body and mouthfeel.
|
| |
Date: 27 Nov 2006 10:37:55
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
harvestwind_73@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I would be careful using sparge water above 165...you can start to
> flirt with astrengency problems. I agree with the former poster...you
> wont notice a difference. Keep your mash temp on the high side like you
> had intended...and you can add a little lactose to the boil if you are
> going for more body and mouthfeel.
Not necessarily...my sparge water is never below 185 and I have npo
astrnigency issues. Keep in mind that a high pH is also needed for
problems to arise, not just a high temp.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 20:44:16
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:37:55 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> harvestwind_73@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> I would be careful using sparge water above 165...you can start to
>> flirt with astrengency problems. I agree with the former poster...you
>> wont notice a difference. Keep your mash temp on the high side like you
>> had intended...and you can add a little lactose to the boil if you are
>> going for more body and mouthfeel.
>
> Not necessarily...my sparge water is never below 185 and I have npo
> astrnigency issues. Keep in mind that a high pH is also needed for
> problems to arise, not just a high temp.
Also, it's not really the temp of the sparge water that matters much. It's
the temp of the grain bed during the sparge that is more important. The
relationship between sparge water temp and grain bed temp is going to
be different for various systems. There are too many variables involved
to say anything like "keep the water temp below X".
For example, I heat my sparge water to boiling (212F). However, I've got
a lot of heat loss in my system so that the gain bed doesn't get anywhere
near that high.
John.
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 13:50:40
From:
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
>
> Also, it's not really the temp of the sparge water that matters much. It's
> the temp of the grain bed during the sparge that is more important. The
> relationship between sparge water temp and grain bed temp is going to
> be different for various systems. There are too many variables involved
> to say anything like "keep the water temp below X".
>
> For example, I heat my sparge water to boiling (212F). However, I've got
> a lot of heat loss in my system so that the gain bed doesn't get anywhere
> near that high.
>
>
> John.
True, but if you have alot of heat loss and you are sparging high; some
of your grain bed may be getting a little hot. If you don't have haze
problems, I wouldn't worry about it. However, I think it would make
more sense to insulate your mash tun better and stay safely under high
temps for sparging. How is your clarity?
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 04:06:31
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
On 28 Nov 2006 13:50:40 -0800, <harvestwind_73@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Also, it's not really the temp of the sparge water that matters much. It's
>> the temp of the grain bed during the sparge that is more important. The
>> relationship between sparge water temp and grain bed temp is going to
>> be different for various systems. There are too many variables involved
>> to say anything like "keep the water temp below X".
>>
>> For example, I heat my sparge water to boiling (212F). However, I've got
>> a lot of heat loss in my system so that the gain bed doesn't get anywhere
>> near that high.
>>
>>
>> John.
>
> True, but if you have alot of heat loss and you are sparging high; some
> of your grain bed may be getting a little hot. If you don't have haze
> problems, I wouldn't worry about it. However, I think it would make
> more sense to insulate your mash tun better and stay safely under high
> temps for sparging. How is your clarity?
In my system, the heat loss occurs before the sparge water gets to the tun.
John.
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:36:18
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
Wayne wrote:
> John Krehbiel wrote:
> > I want to get a very dextrinous wort for my Scottish ale. My plan is
> > to mash high- 158 F, for only 45 minutes. The first runnings will be
> > boiled separatley for caramelization.
> >
> > In order not to sacrifice yield and minimize starch, I'm going to batch
> > sparge with water at 160 F, so that some conversion will continue in
> > the more dilute second and third runnings.
> >
> > Do you think this will do what I want?
> >
> > John
> >
> Unless you routinely get your mash bed above 170=B0 and hold it there for
> 15 or 20 minutes before sparging, you are essentially doing this process
> anyway. It takes that long for the enzymes to denature. That's why the
> mashout is really inconsequential in batch sparging other than for
> decreasing the viscosity of the wort for quicker draining.
>
> Also in the very short time that your sparge water is in the mash tun
> after draining the first runnings, very little additional conversion
> will take place. Minimizing starch would be better done by extending
> the mash to 60 minutes, although at 45 minutes conversion should be
> complete. Extra time beyond that would tend to break down the sugar
> chains a bit for a slightly less dextrinous wort.
>
> In short, doing what you are planning will work just fine though you
> probably won't notice any difference.
>
> Wayne
> Bugeater Brewing Company
The other fly in the ointment is the fact that the enzymes are most
likely rinsed out with the first runnings, aren't they?
Anyway, I certainly got a dextrinous wort, despite a couple of stupid
brewer tricks. The OG was 1.050, and fermentation is slowing way down
after 6 days at 1.020. I'm sure it will go lower, but that's a lot
higher than I usually see when the bubbles slow down.
I've also fermented low, around 55-60 F. At this point it won't change
the flavor much if I raise the temp closer to 70, will it? I'm thinking
about bringing it upstairs for a couple of days.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:18:55
From: Phil
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
On 30 Nov 2006 08:36:18 -0800, "John Krehbiel" <jkrehbielp@gmail.com >
wrote:
>I've also fermented low, around 55-60 F. At this point it won't change
>the flavor much if I raise the temp closer to 70, will it? I'm thinking
>about bringing it upstairs for a couple of days.
Depending on the yeast, you will most likely develop some esters in
the beer.
Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 20:45:52
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
On 30 Nov 2006 08:36:18 -0800, <jkrehbielp@gmail.com > wrote:
> The other fly in the ointment is the fact that the enzymes are most
> likely rinsed out with the first runnings, aren't they?
It'll probably rinse them out of the mash tun, but they'll still be in
the wort in the kettle.
> I've also fermented low, around 55-60 F. At this point it won't change
> the flavor much if I raise the temp closer to 70, will it? I'm thinking
> about bringing it upstairs for a couple of days.
The temp is more critical during the early stages of fermentation, however
you may still get some effect. Unless you're in a big hurry, I'd just
leave it where it is. It should be able to finish fermenting at that temp,
it'll just take a little longer.
John.
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 17:02:29
From:
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
harvestwind_73@yahoo.com wrote:
> Well most brewers know their systems and have figured out what works
> best. It also depends somewhat on the malts used. I know that Maris
> Otter malts are a bit more fussy with higher sparge temps. They can
> develop haze issues because of it.
>
> If your beers are crystal clear, all is well in whoville. You are
> definitely right, Ph is a big chill haze culprit too. I always end my
> sparge a little early and dilute the wort in the kettle just to be on
> the safe side of things. Hazy beer is a killer here with the beer
> geeks.
>
I should clarify. I end early (1.015 or so) and dilute the wort in the
kettle with H2O to get down to my pre boil target gravity.
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:23:29
From:
Subject: Re: Fast mash without mashout?
|
Well most brewers know their systems and have figured out what works
best. It also depends somewhat on the malts used. I know that Maris
Otter malts are a bit more fussy with higher sparge temps. They can
develop haze issues because of it.
If your beers are crystal clear, all is well in whoville. You are
definitely right, Ph is a big chill haze culprit too. I always end my
sparge a little early and dilute the wort in the kettle just to be on
the safe side of things. Hazy beer is a killer here with the beer
geeks.
Denny Conn wrote:
> harvestwind_73@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > I would be careful using sparge water above 165...you can start to
> > flirt with astrengency problems. I agree with the former poster...you
> > wont notice a difference. Keep your mash temp on the high side like you
> > had intended...and you can add a little lactose to the boil if you are
> > going for more body and mouthfeel.
>
> Not necessarily...my sparge water is never below 185 and I have npo
> astrnigency issues. Keep in mind that a high pH is also needed for
> problems to arise, not just a high temp.
>
> ---------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
|
