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Main
Date: 29 Oct 2006 09:37:30
From: scottdanzig
Subject: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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Hi all,
I'm making my first batch of beer as we speak. Just picked up
Papazion's latest book and with some guidance from coworkers that have
done this all before, I bought some equipment and am taking a shot at
home-brewing.
So I finally got to the fermenting stage yesterday, and this morning I
woke up with an unpleasant surprise. I was expecting wild bubbling and
whatnot, but it looks like it's just bubbling slightly, quietly, and
the excitement is over. At first, when I added the yeast, it did
bubble up significantly through the hose into the overflow bucket, but
it only did that for the first 8-10 hours or so. I'm wondering if I
did something wrong, or if I should proceed as normal and expect good
ale.
Here's what I did:
Sanitized everything relevant in diluted bleach.
Heated 1.5 gallons of filtered tap water in a stockpot to 160F.
Dunked in a cheese cloth bag of ground grains, consisting of 1 lb 90L
crystal malt and 0.5 lb chocolate malt.
After letting it steep 30 minutes, I turned the heat to high and threw
in 6 lb plain amber malt extract and an ounce of Fuggles hops.
I let it boil for an hour, throwing in another half ounce Fuggles hops
at the last minute.
Then I painstakingly poured the wort through a sanitized funnel with a
strainer, into a sanitized 5 gallon carboy filled with 3 gallons cool
water. I used a sanitized stainless steel spoon to shift the sludge on
the strainer around so all the liquid could seep through.
Then I filled the carboy up to 3 inches from the top with more cool
water.
I let it sit there for quite some time, taking the temperature
intermittently with a thermometer (sanitizing before each reading),
until the wort was noticeably close to room temperature.
Then, per the instructions on the refrigerated recently bought
dry-yeast packet of Nottingham Ale Yeast, I heated up 100mL of water in
a sanitized measuring cup to just under 90F, then poured in the yeast,
letting it soak in for a bit, then mixing it with a sanitized spoon and
letting it sit for 15 minutes.
As per the instructions, I hoisted up the carboy of wort and poured an
ounce or two of wort into the measuring cup, doing this 3 times, every
5 minutes, supposedly letting the yeast adjust to the wort's
temperature.
Afterwards, I poured the yeast directly into the carboy and hooked up a
sanitized hose, the other end hanging over a bucket.
........
First off, anyone who read all that, thanks for the time and attention.
Now, can anyone tell me if I did anything horribly wrong, or should I,
as Papazion suggests, relax, and have a home brew?
- Scott
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Date: 29 Oct 2006 15:59:34
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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scottdanzig wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm making my first batch of beer as we speak. Just picked up
> Papazion's latest book and with some guidance from coworkers that have
> done this all before, I bought some equipment and am taking a shot at
> home-brewing.
You're off to a good start.
> So I finally got to the fermenting stage yesterday, and this morning I
> woke up with an unpleasant surprise. I was expecting wild bubbling and
> whatnot, but it looks like it's just bubbling slightly, quietly, and
> the excitement is over. At first, when I added the yeast, it did
> bubble up significantly through the hose into the overflow bucket, but
> it only did that for the first 8-10 hours or so. I'm wondering if I
> did something wrong, or if I should proceed as normal and expect good
> ale.
I wouldn't worry so much about the bubbles, you might have an air leak
that is letting the gas out.
> Here's what I did:
>
> Sanitized everything relevant in diluted bleach.
Hope you rised everything very well. Bleach needs lots of rinsing.
> Heated 1.5 gallons of filtered tap water in a stockpot to 160F.
>
> Dunked in a cheese cloth bag of ground grains, consisting of 1 lb 90L
> crystal malt and 0.5 lb chocolate malt.
>
> After letting it steep 30 minutes, I turned the heat to high and threw
> in 6 lb plain amber malt extract and an ounce of Fuggles hops.
You may want to let it boil for 15-20 minutes before throwing in the
first hops. I do this to allow the hot break to form. If withing 15
minutes I do not see any clumpy formation, I start my hopping cycle.
> I let it boil for an hour, throwing in another half ounce Fuggles hops
> at the last minute.
>
> Then I painstakingly poured the wort through a sanitized funnel with a
> strainer, into a sanitized 5 gallon carboy filled with 3 gallons cool
> water. I used a sanitized stainless steel spoon to shift the sludge on
> the strainer around so all the liquid could seep through.
Did you do any chilling? You may want to cool down the wort before pouring
it into the cool water, as you may cause some changes in the sugars. I use
an immersion chiller, but have used an ice bath.
> Then I filled the carboy up to 3 inches from the top with more cool
> water.
>
> I let it sit there for quite some time, taking the temperature
> intermittently with a thermometer (sanitizing before each reading),
> until the wort was noticeably close to room temperature.
I always chill down to 110 Degrees before adding my 3 gallon boil to the
cool water. I comes out right on pitching temp. I pour in my yeast and
stir, shake, and seal.
> Then, per the instructions on the refrigerated recently bought
> dry-yeast packet of Nottingham Ale Yeast, I heated up 100mL of water in
> a sanitized measuring cup to just under 90F, then poured in the yeast,
> letting it soak in for a bit, then mixing it with a sanitized spoon and
> letting it sit for 15 minutes.
I've never bothered to rehydrate yeast before pitching.. Maybe it would help
shorten lag time.. but I haven't had any issues yet.
> As per the instructions, I hoisted up the carboy of wort and poured an
> ounce or two of wort into the measuring cup, doing this 3 times, every
> 5 minutes, supposedly letting the yeast adjust to the wort's
> temperature.
Again, I've never bothered.. I just pour the yeast right into the wort/water
mixture and stir/shake well.
> Afterwards, I poured the yeast directly into the carboy and hooked up a
> sanitized hose, the other end hanging over a bucket.
>
> ........
> First off, anyone who read all that, thanks for the time and attention.
> Now, can anyone tell me if I did anything horribly wrong, or should I,
> as Papazion suggests, relax, and have a home brew?
Nothing terribly wrong, except the 90F water may have been too hot for the
yeast. Not sure, since I've never used that strain. Otherwise, I would just
let it go and take a reading if you don't think its fermenting. You could always
dump in another dose of yeast.
--
Dan
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Date: 29 Oct 2006 12:38:30
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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Most of the English yeast are quick fermenters. This is not a problem,
but you may get better results by keeping the ambient temperature
around 15C or so, this will slow them down and make sure they do their
job properly.
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Date: 29 Oct 2006 18:17:45
From: Boll Weevil Brewery
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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"scottdanzig" <sdanzig@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162143450.848272.280460@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<snip >
> First off, anyone who read all that, thanks for the time and attention.
> Now, can anyone tell me if I did anything horribly wrong, or should I,
> as Papazion suggests, relax, and have a home brew?
>
> - Scott
>
Relax and have a homebrew. Nottingham is a quick fermenter so depending on
the room temperature, the major part might be finished. I'd let it sit a
week though then secondary, bottle or keg. Also, you might not have an
airtight seal so there is probably more activity going on than the bubbling
would imply.
Hope this helps, and welcome to the addiction, er...hobby!
Ricky
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:52:03
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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On 29 2006 09:37:30 -0800, <sdanzig@gmail.com > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm making my first batch of beer as we speak. Just picked up
> Papazion's latest book and with some guidance from coworkers that have
> done this all before, I bought some equipment and am taking a shot at
> home-brewing.
My first suggestion would be to ditch the Papazian book and get "How To Brew"
by John Palmer instead. It's a much better book.
> So I finally got to the fermenting stage yesterday, and this morning I
> woke up with an unpleasant surprise. I was expecting wild bubbling and
> whatnot, but it looks like it's just bubbling slightly, quietly, and
> the excitement is over. At first, when I added the yeast, it did
> bubble up significantly through the hose into the overflow bucket, but
> it only did that for the first 8-10 hours or so. I'm wondering if I
> did something wrong, or if I should proceed as normal and expect good
> ale.
There are lots of things that effect how long it takes the fermentation to
start and how quickly it proceeds once it gets going. The two biggest for
how quickly it proceeds are the OG of the beer and the fermentation temp. If
it's a relatively light beer or if the temp is fairly high, it can finish
fermenting pretty quickly.
The rest of my comments about your procedure are unrelated to this, just
random things I spotted.
> After letting it steep 30 minutes, I turned the heat to high and threw
> in 6 lb plain amber malt extract and an ounce of Fuggles hops.
I'm assuming (hoping) that you took out the grains before doing this? Or
did you leave the grains in during the boil?
> I let it sit there for quite some time, taking the temperature
> intermittently with a thermometer (sanitizing before each reading),
> until the wort was noticeably close to room temperature.
In the future, the faster you can cool the beer down the better off it'll
be. You can get something called a "wort chiller" which is designed for this.
Another trick is to fill your kitchen sink wil cold/ice water and set
the pot into this "water bath" after it is done boiling. This'll help
bring the temp down a lot faster. Then when you add it to the fermenter and
top off with cold water, it should be low enough that you can add your
yeast right away.
Letting the beer sit around for awhile waiting for the temp to drop on it's
own is no fun for you or the beer.
> Then, per the instructions on the refrigerated recently bought
> dry-yeast packet of Nottingham Ale Yeast, I heated up 100mL of water in
> a sanitized measuring cup to just under 90F, then poured in the yeast,
> letting it soak in for a bit, then mixing it with a sanitized spoon and
> letting it sit for 15 minutes.
IMO, skip this step next time.
> As per the instructions, I hoisted up the carboy of wort and poured an
> ounce or two of wort into the measuring cup, doing this 3 times, every
> 5 minutes, supposedly letting the yeast adjust to the wort's
> temperature.
IMO, definitely skip this step next time too.
> Afterwards, I poured the yeast directly into the carboy and hooked up a
> sanitized hose, the other end hanging over a bucket.
All you really need to do is open the packet of dry yeast and sprinkle it
right into the fermenter. That other stuff you did was really just a waste
of time.
> First off, anyone who read all that, thanks for the time and attention.
> Now, can anyone tell me if I did anything horribly wrong, or should I,
> as Papazion suggests, relax, and have a home brew?
It sounds like you did everything alright. I'm guessing that either this
was a relatively light beer or else the room you have the beer in is pretty
warm (above 70F?). In either case, I'd just leave it alone for several
more days at least, and then take a gravity reading to see where it is. If
the gravity stays consistent over the span of a few days, and it's reasonable
for a final gravity, then you're ready to bottle.
John.
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 12:37:39
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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Scott, Palmer's 'How to Brew' is online (http://www.howtobrew.com)
It's a good resource, as is Papazian's book IMO.
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 11:58:11
From: scottdanzig
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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On 30, 11:52 am, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <s...@shagg.net > wrote:
> On 29 2006 09:37:30 -0800, <sdan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I'm making my first batch of beer as we speak. Just picked up
> > Papazion's latest book and with some guidance from coworkers that have
> > done this all before, I bought some equipment and am taking a shot at
> > home-brewing.My first suggestion would be to ditch the Papazian book and get "How To Brew"
> by John Palmer instead. It's a much better book.
>
> > So I finally got to the fermenting stage yesterday, and this morning I
> > woke up with an unpleasant surprise. I was expecting wild bubbling and
> > whatnot, but it looks like it's just bubbling slightly, quietly, and
> > the excitement is over. At first, when I added the yeast, it did
> > bubble up significantly through the hose into the overflow bucket, but
> > it only did that for the first 8-10 hours or so. I'm wondering if I
> > did something wrong, or if I should proceed as normal and expect good
> > ale.There are lots of things that effect how long it takes the fermentation to
> start and how quickly it proceeds once it gets going. The two biggest for
> how quickly it proceeds are the OG of the beer and the fermentation temp. If
> it's a relatively light beer or if the temp is fairly high, it can finish
> fermenting pretty quickly.
>
> The rest of my comments about your procedure are unrelated to this, just
> random things I spotted.
>
> > After letting it steep 30 minutes, I turned the heat to high and threw
> > in 6 lb plain amber malt extract and an ounce of Fuggles hops.I'm assuming (hoping) that you took out the grains before doing this? Or
> did you leave the grains in during the boil?
>
> > I let it sit there for quite some time, taking the temperature
> > intermittently with a thermometer (sanitizing before each reading),
> > until the wort was noticeably close to room temperature.In the future, the faster you can cool the beer down the better off it'll
> be. You can get something called a "wort chiller" which is designed for this.
> Another trick is to fill your kitchen sink wil cold/ice water and set
> the pot into this "water bath" after it is done boiling. This'll help
> bring the temp down a lot faster. Then when you add it to the fermenter and
> top off with cold water, it should be low enough that you can add your
> yeast right away.
>
> Letting the beer sit around for awhile waiting for the temp to drop on it's
> own is no fun for you or the beer.
>
> > Then, per the instructions on the refrigerated recently bought
> > dry-yeast packet of Nottingham Ale Yeast, I heated up 100mL of water in
> > a sanitized measuring cup to just under 90F, then poured in the yeast,
> > letting it soak in for a bit, then mixing it with a sanitized spoon and
> > letting it sit for 15 minutes.IMO, skip this step next time.
>
> > As per the instructions, I hoisted up the carboy of wort and poured an
> > ounce or two of wort into the measuring cup, doing this 3 times, every
> > 5 minutes, supposedly letting the yeast adjust to the wort's
> > temperature.IMO, definitely skip this step next time too.
>
> > Afterwards, I poured the yeast directly into the carboy and hooked up a
> > sanitized hose, the other end hanging over a bucket.All you really need to do is open the packet of dry yeast and sprinkle it
> right into the fermenter. That other stuff you did was really just a waste
> of time.
>
> > First off, anyone who read all that, thanks for the time and attention.
> > Now, can anyone tell me if I did anything horribly wrong, or should I,
> > as Papazion suggests, relax, and have a home brew?It sounds like you did everything alright. I'm guessing that either this
> was a relatively light beer or else the room you have the beer in is pretty
> warm (above 70F?). In either case, I'd just leave it alone for several
> more days at least, and then take a gravity reading to see where it is. If
> the gravity stays consistent over the span of a few days, and it's reasonable
> for a final gravity, then you're ready to bottle.
>
> John.
Thanks all for the replies! Now let me comment a bit:
I was pretty careful about rinsing off the bleach thoroughly. I first
used hot water to rinse, then, out of concern about the stuff in hot
water, I rinsed again with cold water.
I did take the grains out before the boil. The Papazion book is that
bad?..There IS perhaps some merit to the frequent "Relax, and have a
home brew" comments, but I would prefer more detailed descriptions of
the steps and possible intricacies instead, yes. And better pictures.
I'll check out the book you mention, John.
Two guys in this thread have just suggested the ice bath idea. Waiting
for the wort to cool WAS pretty boring, so I'll definitely try this
next time.
The 90F water wouldn't have killed off the yeast, as that was the
temperature suggested on the yeast packet itself. That's also the
temperature of water I'm used to mixing yeast into when baking, so it
sounded familiar enough for me to be comfortable with it.
The temperature in my house is about 73-74F, and people here have said
the English yeast I used generally ferments quickly, so I'm pretty
confident nothing's going wrong at the moment. Next time, I'll pour
the dry yeast right into the wort, which is what I was intending to do
up till when I dared to read directions. Reading is a bad thing to do
sometimes.
Thanks again all! I'll post how things turn out :)
- Scott
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 22:33:58
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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On 30 2006 11:58:11 -0800, <sdanzig@gmail.com > wrote:
> I did take the grains out before the boil. The Papazion book is that
> bad?..There IS perhaps some merit to the frequent "Relax, and have a
> home brew" comments, but I would prefer more detailed descriptions of
> the steps and possible intricacies instead, yes. And better pictures.
> I'll check out the book you mention, John.
Not so much "bad" as "really out of date". The Papazian book was widely
regarded as the best book to get for homebrewing, but that was a long time
ago. Unfortunately, it is still recommended by experienced brewers who
"grew up" with it when starting the hobby (store owners, etc). Most of the
book was written 20 years ago or so. He did come out with a third edition
recently, but much of the information in there was not changed. There are
huge differences between then and now not only in the quality/type of
ingredients and equipment available, but also in the level of knowledge
we have gained about brewing on a small scale.
Papazian was/is a great ambassador for the hobby, but he was never much of
a technically knowledgable brewer. I think you'll get better, more current
information from the Palmer book instead. Especially if you are looking for
more details. Papazian tended to brush over details alot in order to make
brewing seem easier. Back then brewing was a very small hobby and much of
his book is geared towards attracting new people into it (the whole Relax...
thing). That's not as important today, so newer books tend to give you a
lot more data and less cheerleading.
> Two guys in this thread have just suggested the ice bath idea. Waiting
> for the wort to cool WAS pretty boring, so I'll definitely try this
> next time.
Cooling the beer quickly also has other implications, like helping with
clarity and getting the yeast in the quickly to out compete bacteria.
> The 90F water wouldn't have killed off the yeast, as that was the
> temperature suggested on the yeast packet itself. That's also the
> temperature of water I'm used to mixing yeast into when baking, so it
> sounded familiar enough for me to be comfortable with it.
90F shouldn't kill yeast, although if they get put into the wort at 90F there
are lots of fermentation by-products which occur early on that they will
put into the beer. Usually, not stuff you really want unless you're making
a style that specifically calls for them.
> The temperature in my house is about 73-74F, and people here have said
> the English yeast I used generally ferments quickly, so I'm pretty
> confident nothing's going wrong at the moment.
Yeah, 73-74F is really warm for fermenting (do you have anywhere in the
house which is cooler, a basement maybe?). That'll cause the fermentation
to occur pretty quickly, but it will also cause the yeast to produce some
things that you probably don't want like esters (fruity) and fusels (adds to
hangovers).
> Next time, I'll pour
> the dry yeast right into the wort, which is what I was intending to do
> up till when I dared to read directions. Reading is a bad thing to do
> sometimes.
My general advice is to ignore the directions that come packaged in the kit,
most of them are notoriously bad. Follow the recipe they give you, but
as far as the actual procedure stick with what the books say. As far as
pitching dry yeast, I would just sprinkle it directly into the fermenter.
It's far easier that way, and you're less likely to mess anything up.
Especially as a beginner, extra steps for little to no benefit are the last
thing you need to be worrying about right now. Concentrate on learning how
to make good beer for now, worry about all of the "theoretical improvements"
later.
John.
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Date: 11 Nov 2006 19:40:02
From: scottdanzig
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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Dan Logcher wrote:
> scottdanzig wrote:
> > Sanitized everything relevant in diluted bleach.
>
> Hope you rised everything very well. Bleach needs lots of rinsing.
I'm up to the bottling stage of my first batch. Now opting for the
thrice-newsgroup recommended Palmer book, I see what it says about
sanitizing the bottles. It says you can either use a dishwasher set
for hot dry, or bleach, but if you use bleach:
1. Let it drain upside down on a rack...
OR
2. Rinse it with water (if using tap water, boil first)
...
So did I read that right? Dumping it in bleach water, and putting it
on the rack upside down is enough? I can't imagine how in the world
I'd be able to rinse so many bottles thoroughly if I can't use water
right out of the faucet. For now, I like the dishwasher idea.. will
take a while, but it requires no effort. So what's worked for you? I
probably would have just dumped it in bleach water then rinsed in cold
tap water thoroughly if I didn't read this Palmer book which says
"Rinsing with unboiled tap water is a number one cause of spoiled
batches." Is that true?
- Scott
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Date: 15 Nov 2006 20:07:49
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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On 11 Nov 2006 19:40:02 -0800, <sdanzig@gmail.com > wrote:
> Dan Logcher wrote:
>> scottdanzig wrote:
>> > Sanitized everything relevant in diluted bleach.
>>
>> Hope you rised everything very well. Bleach needs lots of rinsing.
>
> I'm up to the bottling stage of my first batch. Now opting for the
> thrice-newsgroup recommended Palmer book, I see what it says about
> sanitizing the bottles. It says you can either use a dishwasher set
> for hot dry, or bleach, but if you use bleach:
>
> 1. Let it drain upside down on a rack...
>
> OR
>
> 2. Rinse it with water (if using tap water, boil first)
>
> ...
I'm one of the people that recommends the Palmer book a lot, however I
don't always agree 100% with everything he says in there. I don't recall
the section you're quoting, but if you're quoting it right then I don't
think I'd do it that way.
Regarding the dishwasher method, it does work, but only if you have the right
kind of dishwasher. The main issue is whether or not your brand/model of
dishwasher gets into pasteurization temps during the hot dry cycle in order
to be an effective sanitizer. Some of them do, but there are also many
dishwashers that do not. I do not think it's correct to make a universal
statement that this works for all dishwashers.
Regarding using bleach, personally I would not just let it drain upside down
and do nothing else. I think you're going to end up with enough residual
bleach this way to effect the beer. I would definitely rinse the bottles
afterwards, however I also disagree with the statement that you need to boil
your tap water. I would recommend cleaning/sanitizing with bleach and then
rinsing with water straight from the tap, assuming that you are on a municipal
water supply. Generally, the water should be clean enough that you don't have
anything to worry about. If you're on well water, or some other less
controlled water source, then you might want to be more concerned about it.
Boiling the rinse water certainly won't hurt anything, but if you're on a
municipal water supply I think it's overkill. I've used straight tap water
for rinsing quite often, and never noticed any issues.
> I probably would have just dumped it in bleach water then rinsed in cold
> tap water thoroughly if I didn't read this Palmer book which says
> "Rinsing with unboiled tap water is a number one cause of spoiled
> batches." Is that true?
IMO, that quote is definitely not true. With all due respect to Palmer,
all I can do is scratch my head over that one.
John.
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Date: 13 Nov 2006 06:42:26
From: scottdanzig
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
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Jeff wrote:
> > I'm up to the bottling stage of my first batch. Now opting for the
> > thrice-newsgroup recommended Palmer book, I see what it says about
> > sanitizing the bottles. It says you can either use a dishwasher set
> > for hot dry, or bleach, but if you use bleach:
> > 1. Let it drain upside down on a rack...
> > OR
> > 2. Rinse it with water (if using tap water, boil first)
>
> Bleach must be rinsed well, otherwise you'll get off flavors from it.
> Some will have the opinion that using water from the tap will introduce
> bacteria that'll be a problem, and recommend that you only rinse with
> boiled water, which is a PITA. If it was me, and I was stuck with the
> only option of using bleach, I'd let my hot water tap run until I was
> getting good hot water and then use that to rinse with. It'd be good
> enough.
>
> However, I use an idophor solution to sanitize bottles and don't need
> to rinse. I highly recommend that or using one of the other no-rinse
> sanitizers for bottling. A little goes a long way as you can keep
> reusing the sanitizer over and over and there's no need to make a huge
> batch of it.
>
> I hear from many sources that the dishwasher method you are talking
> about works well. Just make sure your bottles are clean on the inside
> first, since the dishwasher will do little to actually clean the
> bottles, only sanitize them.
>
> Don't forget to sanitize your caps - you can use a no-rinse sanitizer,
> or drop them in some boiling water for a few minutes before using them.
>
> --Jeff
Thanks Jeff. I'm glad to hear the voice of reason. I think I'll stick
with the dishwasher method, as it's easy to just skip to the dry cycle
and anything that is less work for me is a good thing. I boiled the
caps. My first batch is bottled, peacefully awaiting drinking day. I
can't wait..the beer smelled good!
- Scott
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Date: 13 Nov 2006 04:46:53
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Did something go wrong with the yeast?
|
> I'm up to the bottling stage of my first batch. Now opting for the
> thrice-newsgroup recommended Palmer book, I see what it says about
> sanitizing the bottles. It says you can either use a dishwasher set
> for hot dry, or bleach, but if you use bleach:
> 1. Let it drain upside down on a rack...
> OR
> 2. Rinse it with water (if using tap water, boil first)
Bleach must be rinsed well, otherwise you'll get off flavors from it.
Some will have the opinion that using water from the tap will introduce
bacteria that'll be a problem, and recommend that you only rinse with
boiled water, which is a PITA. If it was me, and I was stuck with the
only option of using bleach, I'd let my hot water tap run until I was
getting good hot water and then use that to rinse with. It'd be good
enough.
However, I use an idophor solution to sanitize bottles and don't need
to rinse. I highly recommend that or using one of the other no-rinse
sanitizers for bottling. A little goes a long way as you can keep
reusing the sanitizer over and over and there's no need to make a huge
batch of it.
I hear from many sources that the dishwasher method you are talking
about works well. Just make sure your bottles are clean on the inside
first, since the dishwasher will do little to actually clean the
bottles, only sanitize them.
Don't forget to sanitize your caps - you can use a no-rinse sanitizer,
or drop them in some boiling water for a few minutes before using them.
--Jeff
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