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Date: 18 Jul 2006 11:02:48
From:
Subject: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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Once a year I brew a Kolsch, and it usually
turns out very good (its won a couple of 1st in
various competitions here and there).
The malt bill is basically 95% pilsner malt,
and about 5% wheat malt.
I like to do a single decion mash to increase
the malt character a little.
However, last time I brewed it, the homebrew shop
sold me something called "turbo" Pilsner malt.
I think it was made by Durst.
I did everything pretty much almost exactly the
way I've done it before, with the only difference being
that I used this "turbo" pilsner malt instead of
regular pilsner malt.
And this time the beer didn't come out so good.
It has what I'd call a somewhat astringent character.
And it has a more "tea" like color to it, that I associate
with Kolsches and Pilsners that around for a long time
(they usually taste oxidized to me, but my tea color
Kolsch tastes more astringent).
So I'm wondering, is it a no-no to dec with turbo pilsner malt?
Another possibility: I sparged the with the same amount of water
and at the same temperature ...
but is turbo malt more sensitive? Does it require less sparaging?
I'd think this was something of a fluke, but I've also brewed
a couple of pilsners with turbo pilsner malt, and
I've gotten similar results (but not quite as bad).
Does Durst or any of the other "turbo pilsner malt" producers
have a website which describes the "does and don't" of using
this stuff?
Cheers,
John
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 14:00:53
From:
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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GeoffT wrote:
> Looks like it's just highly modified pils malt. What were your
> decion steps? Skip the protein rest if you're doing one.
Basically I do a modified step infusion,
with a dec as one of the step.
Typically I dough-in with 130 degreeF water,
for an initial strick temp of about 121 degree F (protein rest),
but since protein rest is not particularly needed,
I immediately increase to about 150 degree F
with enough H20 @ 200 degree F.
Then I do the single decion step:
pull about 4 quartes of thick mash,
bring it to 156 degree F, rest there for 30 minutes,
then raise boiling and boil for 30 minutes.
Then combine with the main mash ... which at this point
since it has lost temperature over the approx. hour,
the combined tempature usually below what I want it to be.
So, I then add enough heat to bring the mash up to 154,
and let it rest for 30 minutes, heat a little more to 158
for 15 minutes to make sure conversion is complete,
then 170 for mash out.
Pretty simple.
Apparently others don't seem to be having any problems with this stuff,
the turbo pils malt, perhaps it is something else I'm doing.
Perhaps the malt I got was old, or a bad batch.
Or maybe I'm over sparaging, but I'm pretty sure I haven't
change the amout of H20, or temperature of it,
that I sparge with.
I just want to see if anyone else has notice this.
Since not, do I little more experimentation, and see
if I can nail down the causes.
Cheers,
Joh
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 12:41:28
From: PaulK
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
> Once a year I brew a Kolsch, and it usually
> turns out very good (its won a couple of 1st in
> various competitions here and there).
>
> The malt bill is basically 95% pilsner malt,
> and about 5% wheat malt.
>
> I like to do a single decion mash to increase
> the malt character a little.
>
> However, last time I brewed it, the homebrew shop
> sold me something called "turbo" Pilsner malt.
> I think it was made by Durst.
>
> I did everything pretty much almost exactly the
> way I've done it before, with the only difference being
> that I used this "turbo" pilsner malt instead of
> regular pilsner malt.
>
> And this time the beer didn't come out so good.
> It has what I'd call a somewhat astringent character.
>
> And it has a more "tea" like color to it, that I associate
> with Kolsches and Pilsners that around for a long time
> (they usually taste oxidized to me, but my tea color
> Kolsch tastes more astringent).
>
> So I'm wondering, is it a no-no to dec with turbo pilsner malt?
>
> Another possibility: I sparged the with the same amount of water
> and at the same temperature ...
> but is turbo malt more sensitive? Does it require less sparaging?
>
> I'd think this was something of a fluke, but I've also brewed
> a couple of pilsners with turbo pilsner malt, and
> I've gotten similar results (but not quite as bad).
>
> Does Durst or any of the other "turbo pilsner malt" producers
> have a website which describes the "does and don't" of using
> this stuff?
>
> Cheers,
> John
I wonder if the additional modification of this malt impacts the mash
pH? Something to look at.
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 08:54:25
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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PaulK wrote:
> I wonder if the additional modification of this malt impacts the mash
> pH? Something to look at.
I've used it in a dozen or so batches so far, and I haven't hat....
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 12:09:45
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Once a year I brew a Kolsch, and it usually
> turns out very good (its won a couple of 1st in
> various competitions here and there).
>
> The malt bill is basically 95% pilsner malt,
> and about 5% wheat malt.
>
> I like to do a single decion mash to increase
> the malt character a little.
>
> However, last time I brewed it, the homebrew shop
> sold me something called "turbo" Pilsner malt.
> I think it was made by Durst.
>
> I did everything pretty much almost exactly the
> way I've done it before, with the only difference being
> that I used this "turbo" pilsner malt instead of
> regular pilsner malt.
>
> And this time the beer didn't come out so good.
> It has what I'd call a somewhat astringent character.
>
> And it has a more "tea" like color to it, that I associate
> with Kolsches and Pilsners that around for a long time
> (they usually taste oxidized to me, but my tea color
> Kolsch tastes more astringent).
>
> So I'm wondering, is it a no-no to dec with turbo pilsner malt?
>
> Another possibility: I sparged the with the same amount of water
> and at the same temperature ...
> but is turbo malt more sensitive? Does it require less sparaging?
>
> I'd think this was something of a fluke, but I've also brewed
> a couple of pilsners with turbo pilsner malt, and
> I've gotten similar results (but not quite as bad).
>
> Does Durst or any of the other "turbo pilsner malt" producers
> have a website which describes the "does and don't" of using
> this stuff?
Durst Turbo pils is my favorite pils malt...I just bought 5 bags of it,
AAMOF! While it makes great beer with only a single infusion, I can't
think of any reason you'd get the result you did from decing it. I
think you should be looking for other causes.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 12:01:34
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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Looks like it's just highly modified pils malt. What were your
decion steps? Skip the protein rest if you're doing one.
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Date: 18 Jul 2006 14:19:14
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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On 18 Jul 2006 11:02:48 -0700, jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
>Once a year I brew a Kolsch, and it usually
>turns out very good (its won a couple of 1st in
>various competitions here and there).
>
>The malt bill is basically 95% pilsner malt,
>and about 5% wheat malt.
>
>I like to do a single decion mash to increase
>the malt character a little.
>
>However, last time I brewed it, the homebrew shop
>sold me something called "turbo" Pilsner malt.
>I think it was made by Durst.
>
>I did everything pretty much almost exactly the
>way I've done it before, with the only difference being
>that I used this "turbo" pilsner malt instead of
>regular pilsner malt.
>
>And this time the beer didn't come out so good.
>It has what I'd call a somewhat astringent character.
>
>And it has a more "tea" like color to it, that I associate
>with Kolsches and Pilsners that around for a long time
>(they usually taste oxidized to me, but my tea color
>Kolsch tastes more astringent).
>
>So I'm wondering, is it a no-no to dec with turbo pilsner malt?
>
>Another possibility: I sparged the with the same amount of water
>and at the same temperature ...
>but is turbo malt more sensitive? Does it require less sparaging?
>
>I'd think this was something of a fluke, but I've also brewed
>a couple of pilsners with turbo pilsner malt, and
>I've gotten similar results (but not quite as bad).
>
>Does Durst or any of the other "turbo pilsner malt" producers
>have a website which describes the "does and don't" of using
>this stuff?
>
>Cheers,
>John
See the following: http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/malt/durst.php
I'd skip the decion with the turbo pils.
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 09:48:34
From:
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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> Typically I dough-in with 130 degreeF water,
> for an initial strick temp of about 121 degree F (protein rest),
> but since protein rest is not particularly needed,
> I immediately increase to about 150 degree F
> with enough H20 @ 200 degree F.
>
> Then I do the single decion step:
> pull about 4 quartes of thick mash,
> bring it to 156 degree F, rest there for 30 minutes,
> then raise boiling and boil for 30 minutes.
>
> Then combine with the main mash ... which at this point
> since it has lost temperature over the approx. hour,
> the combined tempature usually below what I want it to be.
>
> So, I then add enough heat to bring the mash up to 154,
> and let it rest for 30 minutes, heat a little more to 158
> for 15 minutes to make sure conversion is complete,
> then 170 for mash out.
>
> Pretty simple.
>
> Apparently others don't seem to be having any problems with this stuff,
> the turbo pils malt, perhaps it is something else I'm doing.
> Perhaps the malt I got was old, or a bad batch.
> Or maybe I'm over sparaging, but I'm pretty sure I haven't
> change the amout of H20, or temperature of it,
> that I sparge with.
Sounds like you need to acidify your mash to prevent tannin extraction
during decion.
Jack
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 18:33:54
From:
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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Perhaps drop by your local pet store that carries fish & aquariums and
related equipment - there are some much better pH kits out there than
your brewer's litmus paper...
good luck!
d
(remember - if you don't know, you don't know.)
jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
> But I've never had a whole lot of luck trying
> to take the pH of my mash with the brewer's litmus paper
> they sold at my homebrew shop.
>
> I never got the hang of it.
> I could never really tell just from looking at it what the pH was.
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 13:15:15
From:
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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Jim Stansell wrote:
>
> Have you checked your mash pH? I can't think of any reason to do an
> acid rest if it's not necessary.
>
> just a thought......
It's a good thought ... I might look into it.
But I've never had a whole lot of luck trying
to take the pH of my mash with the brewer's litmus paper
they sold at my homebrew shop.
I never got the hang of it.
I could never really tell just from looking at it what the pH was.
So much for 3 years of college chemistry.
Maybe that's why I changed my major to EE&CS.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 09:09:11
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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On 20 Jul 2006 13:15:15 -0700, jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>It's a good thought ... I might look into it.
>
>But I've never had a whole lot of luck trying
>to take the pH of my mash with the brewer's litmus paper
>they sold at my homebrew shop.
>
>I never got the hang of it.
>I could never really tell just from looking at it what the pH was.
>
>So much for 3 years of college chemistry.
>
>Maybe that's why I changed my major to EE&CS.
Hey, I started out as a double major in CE&EE, and ended up in
Economics (not enough math in EE!).
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 09:51:13
From:
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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jmowbray@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> Sounds like you need to acidify your mash to prevent tannin extraction
> during decion.
Do you think adding an acid rest to my schedule would do the trick?
Cheers,
John
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 13:54:37
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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On 20 Jul 2006 09:51:13 -0700, jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>jmowbray@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like you need to acidify your mash to prevent tannin extraction
>> during decion.
>
>Do you think adding an acid rest to my schedule would do the trick?
>
Have you checked your mash pH? I can't think of any reason to do an
acid rest if it's not necessary.
just a thought......
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 09:38:30
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Decocting with Turbo Pilsner Malt?
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jswatson@yahoo.com wrote:
> But I've never had a whole lot of luck trying
> to take the pH of my mash with the brewer's litmus paper
> they sold at my homebrew shop.
Those things are worthless. Get some plastic pH strips...I like
ColorpHast.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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