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Main
Date: 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
proper flavor/color contributions?
Thanks,
John
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 09:09:40
From:
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
sanchopanza wrote:
> I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
>
>
I thought that the dark malts lowered the pH so if you are having
astrigncy problems with just the dark beers you may want to try raising
your pH by adding some sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or calcium
carbonate. If you have very neutral or slightly acidic water you my be
going too acidic with your mash.
I have the exact opposite issue where I live. My water is waaayyyy too
base. I get astringent beer if I don't use bottled water or add a few
teaspoons of calcium sulfate to the strike water.
Bryan
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 09:08:01
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
sanchopanza wrote:
>
> I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
Well, there's at least part of your problem. The dark grains will drop
the pH by themselves. You should be using chalk or something to RAISE
it, not tryoing to lower it more.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 08:10:25
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
Yes, I'm talking black patent, roasted barley, etc. I'm a batch sparger
which is why I mentioned 20-25 minutes.
John
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, <john.lemaux@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
> > the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
> > Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
> > need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
> > proper flavor/color contributions?
>
> You're usually not worried about them converting, most dark grains are
> already converted. If they do need mashing for some reason, then you'd
> probably be better off adding them to the regular mash.
>
> Assuming we're talking about things like black patent, roasted barley, etc,
> which only required steeping, then they'd probably be alright just putting
> them in and starting your sparge. They should have enough time while the
> sparge runs to have their effect.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 14:58:33
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, <john.lemaux@gmail.com > wrote:
> The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
> the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
> Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
> need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
> proper flavor/color contributions?
You're usually not worried about them converting, most dark grains are
already converted. If they do need mashing for some reason, then you'd
probably be better off adding them to the regular mash.
Assuming we're talking about things like black patent, roasted barley, etc,
which only required steeping, then they'd probably be alright just putting
them in and starting your sparge. They should have enough time while the
sparge runs to have their effect.
John.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 07:20:22
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
John
JS wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
> >the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
> >Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
> >need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
> >proper flavor/color contributions?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >John
>
> I don't believe they need to convert. In an extract brew, these
> grains would be steeped.
>
> Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
> with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
> while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
> doing it as you propose.
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
|
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 14:07:19
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
When I first started all grain brewing, I could not seem to make any dark
beers that weren't astringent. Adding the dark grains at sparging, stopped
this problem cold. A few years ago, I forgot and added them in the mash for
a mild. I cursed myself. My non-brewing cousin even picked it up
unsolicited. I think it is a water issue. Our water is drawn from the
mighty Ohio. It is low in carbonates and moderately high in sulfates.
Generally very good brewing water.
Dan
"sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157984422.812364.89310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
>
>
> John
>
> JS wrote:
>> On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
>> >the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
>> >Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
>> >need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
>> >proper flavor/color contributions?
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >John
>>
>> I don't believe they need to convert. In an extract brew, these
>> grains would be steeped.
>>
>> Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
>> with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
>> while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
>> doing it as you propose.
>>
>> --
>> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
>> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
>
|
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 10:07:57
From: JS
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com >
wrote:
>The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
>the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
>Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
>need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
>proper flavor/color contributions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John
I don't believe they need to convert. In an extract brew, these
grains would be steeped.
Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
doing it as you propose.
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------- >>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 15:00:47
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:07:57 -0400, < > wrote:
> Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
> with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
> while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
> doing it as you propose.
I've heard of it before. In some cases, depending on water chemistry,
people can get harsh/astringent flavors from the grains if they are in for
the full mash. I don't think it's very common though. Dan Listermann, for
example, is probably the first one I heard of who does this.
John.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 09:37:41
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
JS wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
>>the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
>>Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
>>need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
>>proper flavor/color contributions?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>John
>
>
> I don't believe they need to convert. In an extract brew, these
> grains would be steeped.
>
> Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
> with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
> while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
> doing it as you propose.
>
I've heard of this for other types of beers -- I think the idea is to
get the color without risking the astringency. Never tried it
personally, though.
I've also heard of this being done in the context of darkening certain
types of lagers without getting flavor contribution. Some brewers
actually grind a couple of ounces of dark malt into a powder and add it
at the end of the mash. Interesting idea, but not something I've tried
either.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 14:54:57
From: dutchbrew/chicago
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
> > Assuming we're talking about things like black patent, roasted barley, etc,
> > which only required steeping, then they'd probably be alright just putting
> > them in and starting your sparge. They should have enough time while the
> > sparge runs to have their effect.
Denny can prob help you out better on this one, but i would think you
could add the black malt/roasted barly after your mash, stir the sparge
water in really good as usual and jsut let it sit longer than you would
normally before you open the valve for the second runnings. maybe 15
minutes?
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 11:25:52
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
Dan,
Do you fly or batch sparge? If you were to do a batch sparge, when
would you add the dark grains?
Thanks,
John
Dan Listermann wrote:
> When I first started all grain brewing, I could not seem to make any dark
> beers that weren't astringent. Adding the dark grains at sparging, stopped
> this problem cold. A few years ago, I forgot and added them in the mash for
> a mild. I cursed myself. My non-brewing cousin even picked it up
> unsolicited. I think it is a water issue. Our water is drawn from the
> mighty Ohio. It is low in carbonates and moderately high in sulfates.
> Generally very good brewing water.
>
> Dan
>
>
> "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157984422.812364.89310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> >I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> > acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> > pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> > they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> > original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> > JS wrote:
> >> On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
> >> >the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25 minutes.
> >> >Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
> >> >need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide the
> >> >proper flavor/color contributions?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >
> >> >John
> >>
> >> I don't believe they need to convert. In an extract brew, these
> >> grains would be steeped.
> >>
> >> Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
> >> with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
> >> while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
> >> doing it as you propose.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> >> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
> >
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 15:21:17
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
I fly sparge and add the grains just before sparging. I really can't
comment much about batch sparging having only done it a couple of times.
Dan
"sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157999151.940911.235990@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Dan,
> Do you fly or batch sparge? If you were to do a batch sparge, when
> would you add the dark grains?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> Dan Listermann wrote:
>> When I first started all grain brewing, I could not seem to make any dark
>> beers that weren't astringent. Adding the dark grains at sparging,
>> stopped
>> this problem cold. A few years ago, I forgot and added them in the mash
>> for
>> a mild. I cursed myself. My non-brewing cousin even picked it up
>> unsolicited. I think it is a water issue. Our water is drawn from the
>> mighty Ohio. It is low in carbonates and moderately high in sulfates.
>> Generally very good brewing water.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1157984422.812364.89310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> >I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
>> > acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
>> > pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
>> > they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
>> > original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
>> >
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > JS wrote:
>> >> On 10 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700, "sanchopanza" <john.lemaux@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >The next stout I make I'm going to add the dark grains at the end of
>> >> >the mash. I was thinking that they'd probably only need 20-25
>> >> >minutes.
>> >> >Any of you folks have experience doing this? How long do these grains
>> >> >need to be in the mash tun in order for them to convert and provide
>> >> >the
>> >> >proper flavor/color contributions?
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> >John
>> >>
>> >> I don't believe they need to convert. In an extract brew, these
>> >> grains would be steeped.
>> >>
>> >> Why are you thinking of adding them late, anyway? Putting them in
>> >> with the main grains gives you the added benefit of a good steep,
>> >> while at the same time acidifying the mash. I have never heard of
>> >> doing it as you propose.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
>> >> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
>> >
>
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 11:08:04
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
Not yet. If this doesn't work I'll give that a try. This has been a
frustrating problem.
John
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> sanchopanza wrote:
> > I have increased my mash pH as well, using calcium carbonate. I was
> > basing this on John Palmer's nomgraph. The results were undrinkable. I
> > have also tried no water additions. The results were better, but still
> > not great. I live in Austin and we have a very alkaline water supply.
> > It has been my experience that dark grains do not acidify my mash that
> > much-I still end up with a pH around 5.8 or higher. I've been
> > trying to solve this problem for awhile and I do not think a low mash
> > pH is my problem. I have actually improved my results by acidifying the
> > mash, believe it or not. However, my dark beers are still a bit off.
> >
> > John
> >
> > yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>sanchopanza wrote:
> >>
> >>>I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> >>>acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> >>>pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> >>>they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> >>>original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>I thought that the dark malts lowered the pH so if you are having
> >>astrigncy problems with just the dark beers you may want to try raising
> >>your pH by adding some sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or calcium
> >>carbonate. If you have very neutral or slightly acidic water you my be
> >>going too acidic with your mash.
> >>
> >>I have the exact opposite issue where I live. My water is waaayyyy too
> >>base. I get astringent beer if I don't use bottled water or add a few
> >>teaspoons of calcium sulfate to the strike water.
> >>
> >>Bryan
> >
> >
>
> Have you tried doing your mash with "cut" water? Get some RO-filtered
> drinking water (or better yet distilled water) from your local store and
> cut your brewing liquor with it about 50% or more. This will leave some
> minerals in the water, but mitigate their effects a bit.
>
> I do this a lot for my lagers in particular -- not for astringency, but
> because we can periodically get high levels of iron in the local water
> supply.
>
> --
> (Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
>
> Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
> http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
>
> Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
> Buy several copies today!
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 10:37:07
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
I have increased my mash pH as well, using calcium carbonate. I was
basing this on John Palmer's nomgraph. The results were undrinkable. I
have also tried no water additions. The results were better, but still
not great. I live in Austin and we have a very alkaline water supply.
It has been my experience that dark grains do not acidify my mash that
much-I still end up with a pH around 5.8 or higher. I've been
trying to solve this problem for awhile and I do not think a low mash
pH is my problem. I have actually improved my results by acidifying the
mash, believe it or not. However, my dark beers are still a bit off.
John
yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> sanchopanza wrote:
> > I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> > acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> > pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> > they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> > original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
> >
> >
>
> I thought that the dark malts lowered the pH so if you are having
> astrigncy problems with just the dark beers you may want to try raising
> your pH by adding some sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or calcium
> carbonate. If you have very neutral or slightly acidic water you my be
> going too acidic with your mash.
>
> I have the exact opposite issue where I live. My water is waaayyyy too
> base. I get astringent beer if I don't use bottled water or add a few
> teaspoons of calcium sulfate to the strike water.
>
> Bryan
|
| | |
Date: 11 Sep 2006 12:45:10
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
|
sanchopanza wrote:
> I have increased my mash pH as well, using calcium carbonate. I was
> basing this on John Palmer's nomgraph. The results were undrinkable. I
> have also tried no water additions. The results were better, but still
> not great. I live in Austin and we have a very alkaline water supply.
> It has been my experience that dark grains do not acidify my mash that
> much-I still end up with a pH around 5.8 or higher. I've been
> trying to solve this problem for awhile and I do not think a low mash
> pH is my problem. I have actually improved my results by acidifying the
> mash, believe it or not. However, my dark beers are still a bit off.
>
> John
>
> yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>sanchopanza wrote:
>>
>>>I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
>>>acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
>>>pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
>>>they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
>>>original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I thought that the dark malts lowered the pH so if you are having
>>astrigncy problems with just the dark beers you may want to try raising
>>your pH by adding some sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or calcium
>>carbonate. If you have very neutral or slightly acidic water you my be
>>going too acidic with your mash.
>>
>>I have the exact opposite issue where I live. My water is waaayyyy too
>>base. I get astringent beer if I don't use bottled water or add a few
>>teaspoons of calcium sulfate to the strike water.
>>
>>Bryan
>
>
Have you tried doing your mash with "cut" water? Get some RO-filtered
drinking water (or better yet distilled water) from your local store and
cut your brewing liquor with it about 50% or more. This will leave some
minerals in the water, but mitigate their effects a bit.
I do this a lot for my lagers in particular -- not for astringency, but
because we can periodically get high levels of iron in the local water
supply.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 08:58:50
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Cold Steep questions
|
I added the dark grains at the last 15 minutes of the mash. The cooled
wort tasted pretty good. Hopefully this batch will be better than my
others.
I've been reading old posts on cold steeping and I may give this a try
in the future. I gather that I should roughly double the amount of dark
grains that I would normally use? What about water to grain ratio? And
by "cold" do people mean room temperature water?
Thanks,
John
dutchbrew/chicago wrote:
> > > Assuming we're talking about things like black patent, roasted barley, etc,
> > > which only required steeping, then they'd probably be alright just putting
> > > them in and starting your sparge. They should have enough time while the
> > > sparge runs to have their effect.
>
> Denny can prob help you out better on this one, but i would think you
> could add the black malt/roasted barly after your mash, stir the sparge
> water in really good as usual and jsut let it sit longer than you would
> normally before you open the valve for the second runnings. maybe 15
> minutes?
|
| | |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 16:36:48
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Cold Steep questions
|
On 12 Sep 2006 08:58:50 -0700, <john.lemaux@gmail.com > wrote:
> I added the dark grains at the last 15 minutes of the mash. The cooled
> wort tasted pretty good. Hopefully this batch will be better than my
> others.
>
> I've been reading old posts on cold steeping and I may give this a try
> in the future. I gather that I should roughly double the amount of dark
> grains that I would normally use? What about water to grain ratio? And
> by "cold" do people mean room temperature water?
IIRC, it's a technique traditionally used on Baltic Porters. Typically
I think the steeping time is greatly increased (12 - 24 hours). Some
seem to recommend increasing the quantity, other's don't. The temp I've
generally seen is room temp.
There used to be an article on Briess's website about it, but the link
seems to be dead.
If you've read the old posts on here then you probably know as much as
I do. Supposedly it gives a much smoother flavor from the dark grains
than regular steeping. However, I've never tried it (didn't want to spend
the hours it would take), so can't comment with direct experience.
John.
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2006 11:44:54
From: sanchopanza
Subject: Re: Cold Steep questions
|
I found this old topic on the Northern Brewer forum. Somebody posted
their correspondence from Mary Anne Gruber at Briess concerning her
cold steeping technique. It pretty much answers all my questions.
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=4606&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Thanks,
John
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 12 Sep 2006 08:58:50 -0700, <john.lemaux@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I added the dark grains at the last 15 minutes of the mash. The cooled
> > wort tasted pretty good. Hopefully this batch will be better than my
> > others.
> >
> > I've been reading old posts on cold steeping and I may give this a try
> > in the future. I gather that I should roughly double the amount of dark
> > grains that I would normally use? What about water to grain ratio? And
> > by "cold" do people mean room temperature water?
>
> IIRC, it's a technique traditionally used on Baltic Porters. Typically
> I think the steeping time is greatly increased (12 - 24 hours). Some
> seem to recommend increasing the quantity, other's don't. The temp I've
> generally seen is room temp.
>
> There used to be an article on Briess's website about it, but the link
> seems to be dead.
>
> If you've read the old posts on here then you probably know as much as
> I do. Supposedly it gives a much smoother flavor from the dark grains
> than regular steeping. However, I've never tried it (didn't want to spend
> the hours it would take), so can't comment with direct experience.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 09:34:12
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
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dutchbrew/chicago wrote:
> Denny can prob help you out better on this one, but i would think you
> could add the black malt/roasted barly after your mash, stir the sparge
> water in really good as usual and jsut let it sit longer than you would
> normally before you open the valve for the second runnings. maybe 15
> minutes?
That sounds like what I'd do IF I was gonna do it...
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 13:24:59
From: JPalmer
Subject: Re: Dark grains at the end of the mash
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The whole problem is that you added carbonate to already alkaline
water. You should be able to brew a good stout with your water straight
out of the tap. Your residual alkalinity for Austin should be 100-150,
which is good for brown ales and stout. If you are closer to Houston
then the RA is higher, and more appropriate for Imperial Stout.
If you acidfy a stout mash, the results will be very acrid, burnt. If
you add more alkalinity in the form of calcium carbonate, the mash pH
will be high and you will get a lot of tannin astringency.
Hopefully the lateste edition of Chapter 15 explains how to use the RA
concept in your mash better than the 2nd edition and online editions
do.
Good Brewing,
John
sanchopanza wrote:
> I have increased my mash pH as well, using calcium carbonate. I was
> basing this on John Palmer's nomgraph. The results were undrinkable. I
> have also tried no water additions. The results were better, but still
> not great. I live in Austin and we have a very alkaline water supply.
> It has been my experience that dark grains do not acidify my mash that
> much-I still end up with a pH around 5.8 or higher. I've been
> trying to solve this problem for awhile and I do not think a low mash
> pH is my problem. I have actually improved my results by acidifying the
> mash, believe it or not. However, my dark beers are still a bit off.
>
> John
>
> yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> > sanchopanza wrote:
> > > I can't seem to make a stout or porter that is not astringent. I've
> > > acidified the mash with acidulated malt, I've tried dropping the mash
> > > pH and I still end up with very harsh beer. I've used carafa malts and
> > > they have helped, but I'd like to give what I've described in my
> > > original post a try to see if I can make a smooth dark beer.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I thought that the dark malts lowered the pH so if you are having
> > astrigncy problems with just the dark beers you may want to try raising
> > your pH by adding some sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or calcium
> > carbonate. If you have very neutral or slightly acidic water you my be
> > going too acidic with your mash.
> >
> > I have the exact opposite issue where I live. My water is waaayyyy too
> > base. I get astringent beer if I don't use bottled water or add a few
> > teaspoons of calcium sulfate to the strike water.
> >
> > Bryan
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