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Date: 19 Jul 2006 14:33:00
From: (East Bay) Phil
Subject: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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Hi all,
Last fall, I began to brew some Belgian-style beers in the sour styles.
I've just bottled some of the results and thought I would submit some
comments.
I initiated my efforts with a Berliner Weisse that wasn't souring
particularly quickly. I had a pellicule in the bucket and eventually
decided to just screw around with the batch. I added some Roselare
dregs to it and eventually bottled a unique Flanders Weisse. Not
recommended due to lack of ballance, but intriguing. I'll be doing the
real thing with WL kolsch yeast and WL lacto. this coming week.
The dregs mentioned above came from my other experiments. I began with
a Flanders Red, the recipe for which was taken from the Wild Brews book.
I added oak and oak-bunged the carboy. Early-on there was some
oxidative flavor, but nearly a year later, at bottling, this is
fantastic. I had a pellicule only after I bunged. This is amazing
yeast; if you have any inclination, do try it.
Intent on making the most of this special-order yeast, I'd racked the
Red off of it after the 3rd day or so. I pitched some of the dregs into
the BW, some into an Oude Bruin (Same book for recipe), and put and
straight lambic wort on the remainder.
The O.B. was also just bottled. I wasn't as thrilled with it; maybe it
will improve with carbination, time, etc.... Regular s-lock prevented
a pellicule - as did the lack of wood. The pLambic continues to do its
thing. It has wood, but the s-lock prevents a pellicule. Smells
Lambic-y. In retrospect, I shouldn't have even considered Roselare for
this beer, though. ;-D Thus, the new pLambic I've started with WL
Sour Mix. I'll oak and oak-bung this new one.
So, the take-away for me was:
- you need some air leakage for a pellicule
- the _Wild Brews_ red recipe is super
- Roselare is awesome and perfect for a red
- Roselare is not magic pixie dust to be spread about when feeling creative
- Roselare gave enough character to the B.W. that I'm still uncertain I
can prove the wood was requisite. [But I'll use it anyhow]
Oh, and the airlock smell of the Roselare yeast is very gratifying.
Cheers,
Phil
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 07:19:51
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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Okay, I'll bite - what does "pellicule" mean?
--Jeff
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 14:43:10
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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On 20 Jul 2006 07:19:51 -0700, <jjhenze@gmail.com > wrote:
> Okay, I'll bite - what does "pellicule" mean?
Basically a skin on top of the wort created by a bacterial infection,
usually Brett.
John.
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 14:55:09
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
>On 20 Jul 2006 07:19:51 -0700, <jjhenze@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Okay, I'll bite - what does "pellicule" mean?
>
>Basically a skin on top of the wort created by a bacterial infection,
>usually Brett.
In English, more commonly spelled "pellicle." It's a
rather generic word; one can find pellicle on top home-
cooked pudding, for example.
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 10:41:25
From: (East Bay) Phil
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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> In English, more commonly spelled "pellicle." It's a
> rather generic word; one can find pellicle on top home-
> cooked pudding, for example.
I had a feeling that I spelled it wrong - then again it's not a
spell-checker-friendly word.
P
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 08:21:51
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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(East Bay) Phil wrote:
> I had a feeling that I spelled it wrong - then again it's not a
> spell-checker-friendly word.
I don't think I can agree with that. Why, even the news reader I'm using
has a spiel shucker in it! But I don't know why anyone bothers with such
things. All you really need to do is get an error-correcting modem!
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 19 Jul 2006 22:57:39
From: neal
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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Wyeast annonced that these yeasts will be discontinued:
1026 Cask (grumble)
1768 English Special Bitter
1882 Thames Valley II (double grumble)
2002 Gambrinus Lager Yeast
2272 No. Am. lager
3538 Leuven Pale Ale
3725 Biere de Garde
3726 Farmhouse Ale
3763 Roselare
3822 Dutch Castle Yeast (sorry Gregg!)
3864 "Unibroue"
Some of these will occasionaly reappear as seasonal strains from year
to year. Some every year, some not.
Phil - I hope you cultured or stored the Roselare, because it's one of
the ones that is basically gone and unknown when it will appear again.
I'm fairly pissed about the 2002 Gambrinus Lager Yeast, but I found and
bought some extra packs. I like it, more flocculant and attenuating
that the other Czech lagers. So Wyeast sells only 3 Czech lagers now,
1 Budvar (2000) and 2 from Pisener Urquell (2001 & 2278). 2002 is
slightly more attenuating than 2278 and a better flocculator.
Thankfully you can still get 2272 (though to be from now dead
Christian Schmidt in Philadelphia) from either
http://www.brewingscience.com/ or http://brewstersyeast.com/
I read the same fate was happening to 2247 European Lager, but it still
seems to be available.
I'm really suprized at the Beligan ones above like Farmhouse and
Roselare given the popularity of the Farmhouse Ales book... I guess the
yeasts themselves weren't popular enough.
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 12:58:05
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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neal <nrichter@gmail.com > wrote:
>Wyeast annonced that these yeasts will be discontinued:
...
>3725 Biere de Garde
>3726 Farmhouse Ale
>3763 Roselare
...
>I'm really suprized at the Beligan ones above like Farmhouse and
>Roselare given the popularity of the Farmhouse Ales book... I guess the
>yeasts themselves weren't popular enough.
That was my first thought. Seems like they'd be
enough in touch with the homebrewing world to keep
those in particular in the catalog for awhile.
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 17:27:19
From: David Edge
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:58:05 +0000 (UTC), plutchak@see.headers (Joel)
wrote:
>neal <nrichter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Wyeast annonced that these yeasts will be discontinued:
>...
>>3725 Biere de Garde
>>3726 Farmhouse Ale
>>3763 Roselare
>...
>>I'm really suprized at the Beligan ones above like Farmhouse and
>>Roselare given the popularity of the Farmhouse Ales book... I guess the
>>yeasts themselves weren't popular enough.
>
> That was my first thought. Seems like they'd be
>enough in touch with the homebrewing world to keep
>those in particular in the catalog for awhile.
One would imagine that their sales department was fairly well in touch
with the home brewing world...
It is disappointing though. Chris White will do a batch for 50 orders
I think. Does anyone know what it is for Wyeast?
David Edge, Derby
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Date: 20 Jul 2006 10:43:46
From: (East Bay) Phil
Subject: Re: Comments on Flanders Red, Roselare, and _Wild Brews_
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neal wrote:
> Wyeast annonced that these yeasts will be discontinued:
>
> 1026 Cask (grumble)
> 1768 English Special Bitter
> 1882 Thames Valley II (double grumble)
> 2002 Gambrinus Lager Yeast
> 2272 No. Am. lager
> 3538 Leuven Pale Ale
> 3725 Biere de Garde
> 3726 Farmhouse Ale
> 3763 Roselare
> 3822 Dutch Castle Yeast (sorry Gregg!)
> 3864 "Unibroue"
>
> Some of these will occasionaly reappear as seasonal strains from year
> to year. Some every year, some not.
I've not tried most of those. I'd love to hear others' comments about a
favorite from above and why they're preferred to the more common strains.
> Phil - I hope you cultured or stored the Roselare, because it's one of
> the ones that is basically gone and unknown when it will appear again.
You know, I didn't. However, I now have a large store of bottles in
which I'm sure the critters will live - in addition to one infected oak
stake. This move by WY has really peeved the pLambic list.
Phil
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