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Main
Date: 20 Oct 2006 04:30:27
From: GeoffT
Subject: Cold pitching lagers
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Hello,
I was wondering what everyones techniques were for getting the wort
down to the colder temperatures recommended for pitching lager yeast. I
have tried pitching at room temperature, and then putting it in the
fridge with very good, clean results but it's often said that pitching
lower results in a cleaner tasting lager.
All I can think of is leaving the wort in a sealed carboy in the fridge
for a few hours before pitching the yeast (sanitation worries) or
perhaps adding some sanitised ice when the wort is at room temperature
to drop it down a few more degrees. Any thoughts?
Also, any favourite lager yeasts?
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Date: 20 Oct 2006 08:31:01
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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GeoffT wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering what everyones techniques were for getting the wort
> down to the colder temperatures recommended for pitching lager yeast. I
> have tried pitching at room temperature, and then putting it in the
> fridge with very good, clean results but it's often said that pitching
> lower results in a cleaner tasting lager.
>
> All I can think of is leaving the wort in a sealed carboy in the fridge
> for a few hours before pitching the yeast (sanitation worries) or
> perhaps adding some sanitised ice when the wort is at room temperature
> to drop it down a few more degrees. Any thoughts?
>
> Also, any favourite lager yeasts?
>
There are basically two ways to go. First, you can cool the wort all the
way down to your pitch temps. If you use an immersion chiller, you start
cooling with tap water, then switch to recirculating ice water via a
cheap submersible fountain pump immersed in a plastic tub of ice water.
This works extremely well, but requires that you get ice. If your
groundwater is cold enough, you may not need ice at all. If I use a CF,
I can also get my wort down to pitching temp by pumping ice water
through my CF. Both of these methods work pretty well.
You may also use a "settling tank" as you mentioned above overnight --
I've also gone this route and it works fine. Obviously you'll need to
use a sealed vessel, such as a carboy or a bucket with a good lid (I use
the latter). This method has the advantage that you can rack off the
break in the morning. Assuming you sanitize the container beforehand AND
pitch a good amount of yeast (slurry from a gallon starter or the yeast
cake from a previous ferment) you will have no infection issues.
Finally, I have heard of people who get good results pitching at ale
temps (< 70F) and cooling overnight to lager temps. The key to success
here seems to be pitching an adequate lager starter to begin with --
again, the slurry from a gallon starter or cake from a previous ferment.
Having said that, I haven't tried this method or personally tasted the
results (which also may vary by yeast strain), so YMMV.
In all cases, pitching a healthy amount of yeast is important.
Hope that helps -- m
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Date: 20 Oct 2006 08:45:03
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> GeoffT wrote:
>>
>> Also, any favourite lager yeasts?
I forgot to add that my standard yeasts are either WYeast 2278 or White
labs 802(Czech Budejovice). These aren't exactly equivalent, but both
make a nice beer. I've used others, but I always seem to come back to
these two.
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Date: 20 Oct 2006 11:14:34
From: Spitzbuben
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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Aside from the main question... I totally agree with the 2278.. I love
it... the only draw back is all the Sulfur... It takes some lagering to
smooth it out and your fridge smells like Mommoth Hot Springs in
Yellowstone. Small price to pay though.
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Date: 20 Oct 2006 14:13:54
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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Spitzbuben wrote:
> Aside from the main question... I totally agree with the 2278.. I love
> it... the only draw back is all the Sulfur... It takes some lagering to
> smooth it out and your fridge smells like Mommoth Hot Springs in
> Yellowstone. Small price to pay though.
>
It is a little sulfiry during the main ferment. I have my fermenting
fridge in my office; the whole place smells like a big malty fart when I
have something at high kreusen. Produces a good beer though.
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Date: 21 Oct 2006 08:13:02
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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Thanks Kap'n, that helps a lot.
I use the Czech Budejovice strain and like it a lot.
On what you were saying about pitching a healthy amount of yeast - for
my starter I have been doing a single vial in a gallon of 1.040 wort at
room temperature, and then decanting and pitching the slurry. Is this
sound or should I be stepping up the starter from a smaller amount of
wort? Also, should I be chilling down the yeast starter to the pitching
temperature?
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Date: 21 Oct 2006 13:40:55
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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GeoffT wrote:
> Thanks Kap'n, that helps a lot.
>
> I use the Czech Budejovice strain and like it a lot.
>
> On what you were saying about pitching a healthy amount of yeast - for
> my starter I have been doing a single vial in a gallon of 1.040 wort at
> room temperature, and then decanting and pitching the slurry. Is this
> sound or should I be stepping up the starter from a smaller amount of
> wort? Also, should I be chilling down the yeast starter to the pitching
> temperature?
>
Assuming the vial is healthy, that's fine. You *could* step it up, but
I've found that in practice it really isn't necessary unless you suspect
the viability of the tube.
I usually crash-cool my starters and then decant the spent wort on brew
day prior to pitching. Ideally, the yeast should be at or below the wort
temp prior to pitching. You really *don't* want o pitch warm yeast into
cold beer, although it's ok to pitch cold yeast into warmer beer.
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Date: 21 Oct 2006 18:25:41
From: Norm J
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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On 21 2006 08:13:02 -0700, "GeoffT"
<sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Thanks Kap'n, that helps a lot.
>
>I use the Czech Budejovice strain and like it a lot.
>
>On what you were saying about pitching a healthy amount of yeast - for
>my starter I have been doing a single vial in a gallon of 1.040 wort at
>room temperature, and then decanting and pitching the slurry. Is this
>sound or should I be stepping up the starter from a smaller amount of
>wort? Also, should I be chilling down the yeast starter to the pitching
>temperature?
With the gallon starter your fine if you are aerating it every few
hours. Aeration keeps the yeast in growth mode which is the purpose
for lager starters-large amounts of healthy yeast. Pitching a warm
starter into cold wort is poor practice. It will shock the yeast and
can drastically reduce the amount of viable yeast introduced to the
wort. Best practice is to build up the starter starting at room temp
with a liter, then build it daily while reducing the temperature 5-7
degrees per day till you get your gallon. Ideally your starter should
be at or below the wort temp at pitching.
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Date: 21 Oct 2006 13:46:14
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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Norm J wrote:
> On 21 2006 08:13:02 -0700, "GeoffT"
> <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Kap'n, that helps a lot.
>>
>> I use the Czech Budejovice strain and like it a lot.
>>
>> On what you were saying about pitching a healthy amount of yeast - for
>> my starter I have been doing a single vial in a gallon of 1.040 wort at
>> room temperature, and then decanting and pitching the slurry. Is this
>> sound or should I be stepping up the starter from a smaller amount of
>> wort? Also, should I be chilling down the yeast starter to the pitching
>> temperature?
>
> With the gallon starter your fine if you are aerating it every few
> hours. Aeration keeps the yeast in growth mode which is the purpose
> for lager starters-large amounts of healthy yeast. Pitching a warm
> starter into cold wort is poor practice. It will shock the yeast and
> can drastically reduce the amount of viable yeast introduced to the
> wort. Best practice is to build up the starter starting at room temp
> with a liter, then build it daily while reducing the temperature 5-7
> degrees per day till you get your gallon. Ideally your starter should
> be at or below the wort temp at pitching.
I'd largely agree with this, although I've found in practice that crash
cooling works as well as slowly reducing the temp, a practice I
abandoned some time ago. Typically I crash to 40F or so. Even if this
results in some loss of viability, there's enough yeast to start with
that for normal gravity beers this shouldn't be an issue. For bigger
beers I generally just pitch in the primary cake and don't use a starter.
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Date: 23 Oct 2006 03:27:09
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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Thanks for the advice.
> With the gallon starter your fine if you are aerating it every few
> hours. Aeration keeps the yeast in growth mode which is the purpose
> for lager starters-large amounts of healthy yeast.
By this do you mean actively shaking the starter every few hours until
it has finished fermenting, or just until I see activity? Or just
giving it a swirl to keep the yeast in suspension?
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Date: 23 Oct 2006 13:06:47
From: JS
Subject: Re: Cold pitching lagers
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On 23 2006 03:27:09 -0700, "GeoffT"
<sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Thanks for the advice.
>
>> With the gallon starter your fine if you are aerating it every few
>> hours. Aeration keeps the yeast in growth mode which is the purpose
>> for lager starters-large amounts of healthy yeast.
>
>By this do you mean actively shaking the starter every few hours until
>it has finished fermenting, or just until I see activity? Or just
>giving it a swirl to keep the yeast in suspension?
Keep the yeast in susp. That's why some use magnetic stir plates.
Doing it manually is the next best thing.
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