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Date: 28 Jun 2006 06:13:26
From: Nate
Subject: Cocoa and IBU effect
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Anyone have any idea how much bittering I'll get from cocoa powder?
Thanks in advance.
http://www.jackieboybrewing.com
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 17:12:23
From: Nate
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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Stoutman wrote:
> You might find this useful:
>
> http://byo.com/feature/333.html
Good info... much appreciated.
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 22:35:57
From: Stoutman
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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You might find this useful:
http://byo.com/feature/333.html
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 11:18:20
From: Nate
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 28 Jun 2006 10:38:42 -0700, <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote:
> > Maybe not IBUs per se, but that's why I said IBU effect. Hops aren't
> > the only bittering ingredients that have been used in brewing history
> > and since cocoa powder is very bitter, it would need to be balanced by
> > a sweet ingredient. I was hoping someone who had done a few chocolate
> > stouts (with cocoa powder) would have a feel for how much to reduce hop
> > IBUs to account for the cocoa bitter... say 3 IBU's per ounce of cocoa
> > (for example). Just trying to maintain a bitter/sweet balance.
>
> IMO, while you're reasoning is sounds, I just don't think it would make
> enough of a difference. Unless you are using a lot of cocoa powder, the
> IBU impact should be fairly small. If we use your example (I don't know
> if that's correct either), most people probably wouldn't even be able
> to taste a 3 IBU difference.
>
> It's been a while since I used real cocoa powder or real bakers chocolate
> in a beer, but I don't think I ever did anything special to compensate
> for the bitterness.
>
> That probably doesn't help answer your question though.
>
>
> John.
Appreciate the input. Honestly, I'm not sure if it's a factor or not
but... cocoa powder is pretty bitter and even if it's effectively 1 IBU
per ounce, I'm looking at 16 ounces in a 10 gallon batch so I would
think it would have somewhat of an effect on overall bitterness. By
the way, the 16 ounces is just a guess based on other recipes I've
seen.
Thinking about this a little more, maybe it would be better to leave
the hops alone and adjust the lactose to balance the bitterness in the
cocoa. I plan on adding both late in the boil so I could mix up the
cocoa powder and lactose prior to addition, taste it, balance it
somewhat, and then add the mixture to the late boil. Basically leave
the wort/hops balance "as is" and just balance the cocoa/lactose.
Might help eliminate some trial and error.
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 10:38:42
From: Nate
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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Scott L wrote:
> Nate wrote:
> > Anyone have any idea how much bittering I'll get from cocoa powder?
>
> Cocoa bittering can't be measured in IBUs, because IBUs are
> parts-per-million of isohumulone. The bittering compound(s) in cocoa
> aren't the same thing.
>
> To my knowledge, there is no quantitative scale measuring bitterness.
>
> Scott
Maybe not IBUs per se, but that's why I said IBU effect. Hops aren't
the only bittering ingredients that have been used in brewing history
and since cocoa powder is very bitter, it would need to be balanced by
a sweet ingredient. I was hoping someone who had done a few chocolate
stouts (with cocoa powder) would have a feel for how much to reduce hop
IBUs to account for the cocoa bitter... say 3 IBU's per ounce of cocoa
(for example). Just trying to maintain a bitter/sweet balance.
I'd be suprised if I got a good answer but I figured I'd ask and maybe
get lucky.
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 18:05:11
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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On 28 Jun 2006 10:38:42 -0700, <nnord@maxitd.com > wrote:
> Maybe not IBUs per se, but that's why I said IBU effect. Hops aren't
> the only bittering ingredients that have been used in brewing history
> and since cocoa powder is very bitter, it would need to be balanced by
> a sweet ingredient. I was hoping someone who had done a few chocolate
> stouts (with cocoa powder) would have a feel for how much to reduce hop
> IBUs to account for the cocoa bitter... say 3 IBU's per ounce of cocoa
> (for example). Just trying to maintain a bitter/sweet balance.
IMO, while you're reasoning is sounds, I just don't think it would make
enough of a difference. Unless you are using a lot of cocoa powder, the
IBU impact should be fairly small. If we use your example (I don't know
if that's correct either), most people probably wouldn't even be able
to taste a 3 IBU difference.
It's been a while since I used real cocoa powder or real bakers chocolate
in a beer, but I don't think I ever did anything special to compensate
for the bitterness.
That probably doesn't help answer your question though.
John.
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 10:21:42
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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Nate wrote:
> Anyone have any idea how much bittering I'll get from cocoa powder?
Cocoa bittering can't be measured in IBUs, because IBUs are
parts-per-million of isohumulone. The bittering compound(s) in cocoa
aren't the same thing.
To my knowledge, there is no quantitative scale measuring bitterness.
Scott
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Date: 28 Jun 2006 17:39:58
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Cocoa and IBU effect
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On 28 Jun 2006 10:21:42 -0700, <scott-sp02@neuralnw.com > wrote:
> Nate wrote:
>> Anyone have any idea how much bittering I'll get from cocoa powder?
>
> Cocoa bittering can't be measured in IBUs, because IBUs are
> parts-per-million of isohumulone. The bittering compound(s) in cocoa
> aren't the same thing.
>
> To my knowledge, there is no quantitative scale measuring bitterness.
I think the best bet is to quantify it via trial and error. IE, take a guess
and brew it once. Then adjust the hops up/down based on how much extra
bitterness your taste buds tell you the cocoa contributes.
Personally, I use chocolate malt now instead of putting real chocolate into
the recipe. Depending on what you're trying to achieve with the cocoa, it
may be worth considering.
John.
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