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Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:04:37
From:
Subject: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
its a bad idea?
Also thinking about going with a American Ale yeast, rather than a
London yeast I used in my last batch... but I was hoping someone could
also fill me in on how that would change the flavor?
Thanks in advance!
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 00:34:43
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On Wednesday 23 August 2006 23:04, joshness@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
> hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
> kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
> thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
> 15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
> more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> its a bad idea?
Judging by what has been put into porter in the past I wouldn't worry.
Actually, you need to male sure the sugar isn't just coloured for the look
of it. Try maple sugar or muscovado (whatever that is called in the US) as
they have enough unfermentables to add some sweetness and flavour. Treacle
or blackstrap molasses can be used but you don't need a lot.
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 00:17:18
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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<joshness@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1156370677.532899.244110@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
> hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
> kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
> thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
> 15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
> more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> its a bad idea?
>
> Also thinking about going with a American Ale yeast, rather than a
> London yeast I used in my last batch... but I was hoping someone could
> also fill me in on how that would change the flavor?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
You can add a bit of brown sugar but it will not add sweetness. The sugar
will ferment out completely and raise your ABV but, hardly much at all as
you only using 6oz. The taste of brown sugar *may* add a slight molasses
note but again, I doubt whether you would notice it as porters have quite
robust flavours from the use of dark grains.
If you want to add sweetness you should add some crystal malts. Dark crystal
is very appropriate for porters and adds a nice complexity to the darker
malts used. If you're an extract brewer you can steep crystal malts or if
you're a grain brewer, add them to the mash.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 19:28:03
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On 23 Aug 2006 15:04:37 -0700, joshness@gmail.com wrote:
>Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
>hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
>kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
>thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
>15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
>more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
>its a bad idea?
>
>Also thinking about going with a American Ale yeast, rather than a
>London yeast I used in my last batch... but I was hoping someone could
>also fill me in on how that would change the flavor?
>
>Thanks in advance!
I made a 'Sweet Georgia Brown' in Nov 2004 that had brown sugar in it
and am still drinking some of it.
6.6 lbs LME
1 lb crystal 60
4 oz wheat malt
4 oz chocolate malt
1 cup brown sugar
8 oz lactose
10 HBUs Perle or Galena hops, 60 minutes
1 tsp Irish Moss, 20 minutes
(I would use Whirlfloc if I brewed this again)
Wyeast American Ale #1056 or Thames Valley #1275, or Nottingham dry
yeast.
(I used 1056).
Recipe courtesy of my LHBS, Great Fermentations of Indianapolis, IN.
Even with just 1 cup I could tell that the brown sugar was there. The
molasses notes are what comes thru in the brew.
With the lactose it is hard to tell if the BS contributed any
lingering sweetness but I doubt that it did because BS is just regular
sugar with molasses.
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 14:37:30
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On 23 Aug 2006 15:04:37 -0700, <joshness@gmail.com > wrote:
> Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
> hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
> kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
> thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
> 15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
> more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> its a bad idea?
I don't think brown sugar will add much (if any) sweetness to the final beer,
although it will increase the ABV. Brown sugar is mostly fermentable, in
order to add some residual sweetness to the final beer you'd need to
add an unfermentable sugar.
Steeping something like Crystal or Cara-pils would work, or adding some
malto-dextrin. It depends on how much sweetness you want to add.
John.
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 23:37:23
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrneereih.m7b.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On 23 Aug 2006 15:04:37 -0700, <joshness@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think brown sugar will add much (if any) sweetness to the final
> beer,
> although it will increase the ABV. Brown sugar is mostly fermentable, in
> order to add some residual sweetness to the final beer you'd need to
> add an unfermentable sugar.
>
> Steeping something like Crystal or Cara-pils would work, or adding some
> malto-dextrin. It depends on how much sweetness you want to add.
>
>
> John.
I have to cut in here, but I have always been under the impression that
carapils really needs to be mashed with diastatic grain and that
malto-dextrin which is derived from wheat adds well, lots of dextrins which
is pretty much tasteless and colourless. I could be wrong though.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 20:00:22
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:37:23 GMT, "Steve/Aus"
<adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
>I have to cut in here, but I have always been under the impression that
>carapils really needs to be mashed with diastatic grain and that
>malto-dextrin which is derived from wheat adds well, lots of dextrins which
>is pretty much tasteless and colourless. I could be wrong though.
>Steve W (in Aus)
>
grains with names that start with 'cara' don't need to be mashed.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 01:33:49
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On Friday 25 August 2006 01:00, rjwhite6 wrote:
> grains with names that start with 'cara' don't need to be mashed.
...except carapils and then not all of them but some do. I believe that the
name now belongs to Weyermann and what use to be called carapils in the UK
is now carahell but certainly something that has been sold as carapils at
some time definitely needs to be mashed so it is a good idea to ask the
place you're buying it from if this is so.
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 10:42:06
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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Andy Davison <andydvsn@yahoo.co.uk > writes:
> On Friday 25 August 2006 01:00, rjwhite6 wrote:
>
> > grains with names that start with 'cara' don't need to be mashed.
>
> ...except carapils and then not all of them but some do. I believe that the
> name now belongs to Weyermann and what use to be called carapils in the UK
> is now carahell but certainly something that has been sold as carapils at
> some time definitely needs to be mashed so it is a good idea to ask the
> place you're buying it from if this is so.
So... What happens if you place steeping grains (like cara/crystals)
in with the mash?
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:45:17
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On 25 Aug 2006 10:42:06 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us > wrote:
> So... What happens if you place steeping grains (like cara/crystals)
> in with the mash?
It works fine, that's what most all grain brewers do. Mashing a steeping
grain doesn't hurt anything. It's generally simpler when mashing to just
add all your grains together.
John.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 11:05:04
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > writes:
> On 25 Aug 2006 10:42:06 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us> wrote:
> > So... What happens if you place steeping grains (like cara/crystals)
> > in with the mash?
>
> It works fine, that's what most all grain brewers do. Mashing a steeping
> grain doesn't hurt anything. It's generally simpler when mashing to just
> add all your grains together.
>
THat's what I've done (and planned on continuing); I wanted to make
sure I wasn't messing anything up. Thanks!
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:18:41
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:37:23 GMT, <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
> I have to cut in here, but I have always been under the impression that
> carapils really needs to be mashed with diastatic grain and that
You may be right. I've seen it both ways.
> malto-dextrin which is derived from wheat adds well, lots of dextrins which
> is pretty much tasteless and colourless. I could be wrong though.
Dextrins are just complex sugars. They're not as sweet tasting as
something like table sugar, but they're definitely not tasteless.
John.
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 20:28:55
From: Droopy
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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Well anytime you raise the OG you are potentially adding sweetness
right?
Since the attenuation of teh yeast will not change.
Of course, if you add a highly fermentable sugar, the yeast will go
after that first and then leave more of the more of the maltose and
maltotriose behind.
I am assuming, I have never added sugar to a beer.
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 23 Aug 2006 15:04:37 -0700, <joshness@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
> > hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
> > kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
> > thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
> > 15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
> > more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> > its a bad idea?
>
> I don't think brown sugar will add much (if any) sweetness to the final beer,
> although it will increase the ABV. Brown sugar is mostly fermentable, in
> order to add some residual sweetness to the final beer you'd need to
> add an unfermentable sugar.
>
> Steeping something like Crystal or Cara-pils would work, or adding some
> malto-dextrin. It depends on how much sweetness you want to add.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:28:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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On 24 Aug 2006 20:28:55 -0700, <Droopy68516@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Well anytime you raise the OG you are potentially adding sweetness
> right?
>
> Since the attenuation of teh yeast will not change.
>
> Of course, if you add a highly fermentable sugar, the yeast will go
> after that first and then leave more of the more of the maltose and
> maltotriose behind.
No, that's not how it works. The attenuation you get in your homebrew
has a lot more to do with the wort than it does the yeast. The attenuation
will definitely change. The yeast will ferment all of the sugars in the
original wort that it would have, plus it will ferment nearly 100% of
the simple sugars.
The yeast will not hit a certain percentage and then just stop, assuming
that you haven't gotten your OG so high that you max out their alcohol
tolerance.
The attenuation number you see listed for a certain strain of yeast is
very misleading. It has almost no correlation to the attenuation you will
see in a specific batch of homebrew. The yeast numbers are only meant as
a relative comparison between strains. Many people get this confused, I
wish the companies would switch to a scale of "low, med, high" rather
than use numbers that don't apply to an actual beer.
For example, if a particular strain of yeast is listed as having a 70%
attenuation, that does not mean that you'll always get 70% attenuation when
using it in homebrew. Depending on the wort you use, you can easily make
that same yeast attenuate anywhere from 55% - 100%. What those numbers
really mean is that if you have another strain which is listed as 75%, it
means that in general the second one will ferment 5% more than the first.
The actual attenuation you get in a specific batch depends on the wort.
John.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 10:03:31
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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>
> So... What happens if you place steeping grains (like cara/crystals)
> in with the mash?
>
It has been suggested that dark grains should be steeped to avoid
astringency, but my experience is that unless you over-sparge,
astringency isn't likely to be a problem.
John
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 08:44:28
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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Droopy wrote:
>
> Well anytime you raise the OG you are potentially adding sweetness
> right?
Not necessarily, especially of the OG increase comes from sugar.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 18:06:35
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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joshness@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
> hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
> kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
> thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
> 15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
> more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> its a bad idea?
Lemme stick a fork in the brown sugar idea...light brown sugar ain't
gonna contribute anything in that quantity, especially in a porter, dark
brown sugar will contribute some molasses character, but zero sweetness.
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 13:00:50
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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joshness@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
> I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was thinking
> about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about 15min
> remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe more
> ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> its a bad idea?
Wow! There has been a lot of very good information in this thread with such
a simple sounding subject line, especially John's comments about yeast
attenuation "numbers". There is no way that a yeast should be marked as
"75% attenuation", because the actual attenuation you see in a batch has
more to do with the amount of fermentable sugars.
Let's make sure we know what we are talking about. Attenuation is defined
(yes, here comes that dang dictionary again!) as "the act of making thin or
less dense, or of rarefying, as fluids or gases." Since SG is a
measurement of density, attenuation is pretty much defined by the
difference between the OG and FG.
But as we all know, two different brews with identical OGs may end at
dramatically different FGs, due to the varying amounts of unfermentables
they contain. In all probability, when they say "75% attenuation," they
should follow that with something like "when used in [some specific wort
profile goes here]."
I wanted to get back to the brown sugar part of the question. Brown sugar
in the U.S. is nothing more than refined sugar into which a little bit of
molasses has been re-added. Molasses is unfermentable and has a definite
characteristic flavor that is quite inappropriate in some styles, but not
objectionable in others. In a porter? That flavor is not specifically
mentioned in the BJCP guides for either "Brown Porter" or "Robust Porter",
[I am purposely omitting "Baltic Porter" here.] but...
The history of porter is very interesting. It's not to hard for me to
imagine a brewer making an early porter throwing a little treacle into the
blend, which would certainly contribute to the "usually fairly well
attentuated" part of the guide description. And it would also add a unique
character to the beer (depending on how much was used).
Which brings me to the point I wanted to make. Brown sugar and treacle are
similar but differ in their molasses content. I think (but I'm just
guessing here) that treacle is not "refined sugar to which molasses has
been added," but rather "sugar that has not been completely refined."
Perhaps some of our friends in G.B. can clarify for us.
Treacle is not generally available in the U.S. (at least, not by that name).
A very similar product is available, however, by the name of "turbinado
sugar". As I understand it, this product comes from Mexico. I use
turbinado sugar in my recipe that attempts to clone Theakston's Old
Peculier (see below). The web page also has a bit of fun playing with the
difference between the words "peculier" and "peculiar".
http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/PeculiarPeculier.php
[Dang! It's been a while since I brewed that one!]
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 28 Aug 2006 10:55:42
From: Joshness
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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MDixon wrote:
> joshness@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi All... New to this newsgroup, just getting started in this addictive
> > hobby, and Im working on my first 'craft' beer, rather than the basic
> > kit brew. I have a basic porter recipe that im working from, and I was
> > thinking about adding about 6oz of Brown Sugar to the kettle at about
> > 15min remaining boil time. Hoping to add a bit of sweetness (And Maybe
> > more ABV?) to the mix, and Im wondering if anyone has tried this, or if
> > its a bad idea?
>
> Lemme stick a fork in the brown sugar idea...light brown sugar ain't
> gonna contribute anything in that quantity, especially in a porter, dark
> brown sugar will contribute some molasses character, but zero sweetness.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
Thanks for all the replys, lots of great info in here!
I ended up using 1 cup (1/2 lb) of "Billington's Dark Brown Molasses
Sugar" as I am more looking for that rich molasses flavor, I didnt use
the generic american brown sugar as many were discussing.
Pale LME - 9 lbs
Steeped Grains for 45min at ~155:
American Chocolate Malt 1 lb
British Crystal 77 12 oz
German Rauch 2lb
Hopping Schedule:
Chinook 1.8 oz 60 min
Willamette 1.0 oz 15 min
Willamette 0.5 oz 0 min
Yeast:
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
Other:
Dark Brown Molasses Sugar 8oz 10min
Whirfloc 15min
Looking for a sweet, lightly smoked flavor, and this is 100%
experimental - Its been in the primary for a few days, and theres still
plenty of activity. I'll keep you posted on how it comes out!
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Date: 29 Aug 2006 01:20:29
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Brown Sugar in Porter?
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"Joshness" <joshness@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1156787742.184696.234570@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Looking for a sweet, lightly smoked flavor, and this is 100%
> experimental - Its been in the primary for a few days, and theres still
> plenty of activity. I'll keep you posted on how it comes out!
>
Which smoked malt did you use. Some are so strong a few oz is quite
noticable while others are lightly smoked and quite a lot is required to
make a difference. I hope in your case that the malt you used was lightly
smoked.
Steve W (in Aus)
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