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Date: 06 Jun 2006 04:10:53
From: John M
Subject: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma. I want to
do an APA, but I'm not a hop-head. Don't get me wrong, my tastes have
definitely changed since starting homebrewing, and I do like much more
hop flavor in my beer than previously. However, beers like IPAs just
don't appeal to me. My dilemma is this, do I brew an APA that is on
the high end of the IBU scale for this style, or one that matches more
to my taste. I believe that judges, in general, are hop-heads. Not
because they are beer snobs, but becuase the longer you drink homebrew
the more accustomed you get to hops taste. As a result, I think APAs
with higher BU:GU ratios will do better. Daniels' book seems to
indicate this. He states a pale ale should have a BU:GU of 0.7 - 0.9.
However, an APA like Sierra Nevada (which I like) is closer to 0.55. A
BU:GU of 0.7 definitely puts you at the high end of the IBU scale for
the APA style, and 0.9 puts you much more in the range of an IPA. So
what would you guys do? Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
I only have to give 60 oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going
to have plenty left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it
might go down easier :).
Thanks,
John
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 09:51:43
From: Dave Smith
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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If you are entering a competition, then brew to win.
If you just want to brew for your own taste buds there's no point in
entering unless you are just curious to see how your beer stacks up.
Dave
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 15:11:10
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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On 6 Jun 2006 04:10:53 -0700, <statepenn99@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma.
> Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
For me, this is an easy answer. I always brew what I like and don't
really care how it would score in a competition. My only goal is to
make beer that I enjoy. However, if you are going to enter it and your
goal is to win, then you need to set your personal preferences aside and
brew what will score well.
John.
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 15:07:37
From: Duke
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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"John M" <statepenn99@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1149592253.918005.148360@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma. I want to
> do an APA, but I'm not a hop-head. Don't get me wrong, my tastes have
> definitely changed since starting homebrewing, and I do like much more
> hop flavor in my beer than previously. However, beers like IPAs just
> don't appeal to me. My dilemma is this, do I brew an APA that is on
> the high end of the IBU scale for this style, or one that matches more
> to my taste. I believe that judges, in general, are hop-heads. Not
> because they are beer snobs, but becuase the longer you drink homebrew
> the more accustomed you get to hops taste. As a result, I think APAs
> with higher BU:GU ratios will do better. Daniels' book seems to
> indicate this. He states a pale ale should have a BU:GU of 0.7 - 0.9.
> However, an APA like Sierra Nevada (which I like) is closer to 0.55. A
> BU:GU of 0.7 definitely puts you at the high end of the IBU scale for
> the APA style, and 0.9 puts you much more in the range of an IPA. So
> what would you guys do? Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
> I only have to give 60 oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going
> to have plenty left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it
> might go down easier :).
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
I would think this would be something only you could answer. You have to
ask yourself what you consider more important. To win, or to enjoy what you
create, that is the question. :) For my time I can't imagine brewing
something I know that I am not going to enjoy. And who's to say that what
you enjoy would not be award winning. I would think victory would be much
sweeter if you liked what you entered.
Just my thoughts,
Duke
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 16:12:28
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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In article <ZSghg.11119$9c7.10148@trnddc06 >, Duke <sorry@no_spam.com> wrote:
>"John M" <statepenn99@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma.
>> My dilemma is this, do I brew an APA that is on
>> the high end of the IBU scale for this style, or one that matches more
>> to my taste.
>I would think this would be something only you could answer. You have to
>ask yourself what you consider more important. To win, or to enjoy what you
>create, that is the question. :) For my time I can't imagine brewing
>something I know that I am not going to enjoy. And who's to say that what
>you enjoy would not be award winning. I would think victory would be much
>sweeter if you liked what you entered.
That's the right answer, to me. Add in the fact that you
may well brew a beer you don't like that *doesn't* win anything,
and you may have your own answer.
--
Joel Plutchak
"...illiterate Abyssinians did it for 5000 years, you can do it too."
- Guy Gregory on brewing beer
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 06:51:32
From: Washu
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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John M wrote:
> I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma. I want to
> do an APA, but I'm not a hop-head. Don't get me wrong, my tastes have
> definitely changed since starting homebrewing, and I do like much more
> hop flavor in my beer than previously. However, beers like IPAs just
> don't appeal to me. My dilemma is this, do I brew an APA that is on
> the high end of the IBU scale for this style, or one that matches more
> to my taste. I believe that judges, in general, are hop-heads. Not
> because they are beer snobs, but becuase the longer you drink homebrew
> the more accustomed you get to hops taste. As a result, I think APAs
> with higher BU:GU ratios will do better. Daniels' book seems to
> indicate this. He states a pale ale should have a BU:GU of 0.7 - 0.9.
> However, an APA like Sierra Nevada (which I like) is closer to 0.55. A
> BU:GU of 0.7 definitely puts you at the high end of the IBU scale for
> the APA style, and 0.9 puts you much more in the range of an IPA. So
> what would you guys do? Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
> I only have to give 60 oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going
> to have plenty left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it
> might go down easier :).
>
> Thanks,
> John
Why not just brew a one gallon batch according to style, if you like
it you can always brew a bigger batch later, if not, you've saved
your ingrediants for something you do like and still have your
(hopefully) winning contest entry.
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 06:06:28
From:
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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Phil wrote:
> On 6 Jun 2006 04:10:53 -0700, "John M" <statepenn99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma. I want to
> >do an APA, but I'm not a hop-head. Don't get me wrong, my tastes have
> >definitely changed since starting homebrewing, and I do like much more
> >hop flavor in my beer than previously. However, beers like IPAs just
> >don't appeal to me. My dilemma is this, do I brew an APA that is on
> >the high end of the IBU scale for this style, or one that matches more
> >to my taste. I believe that judges, in general, are hop-heads. Not
> >because they are beer snobs, but becuase the longer you drink homebrew
> >the more accustomed you get to hops taste. As a result, I think APAs
> >with higher BU:GU ratios will do better. Daniels' book seems to
> >indicate this. He states a pale ale should have a BU:GU of 0.7 - 0.9.
> >However, an APA like Sierra Nevada (which I like) is closer to 0.55. A
> >BU:GU of 0.7 definitely puts you at the high end of the IBU scale for
> >the APA style, and 0.9 puts you much more in the range of an IPA. So
> >what would you guys do? Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
> >I only have to give 60 oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going
> >to have plenty left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it
> >might go down easier :).
>
If you want to win competitions you need to be within the BJCP
gudelines for the specific style you are brewing. The ranges for IBU,
SRM, and other qualities of each style usually have quite a range. You
can visit www.bjcp.org and find the ranges for each style.
I personally brew what I like to drink. If the brew happens to come out
great I then see what catergory it would fit best in at a bjcp
competition and enter it. Don't fret, just brew and enjoy the craft.
Ryan
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 08:54:43
From: Phil
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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On 6 Jun 2006 04:10:53 -0700, "John M" <statepenn99@gmail.com > wrote:
>I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma. I want to
>do an APA, but I'm not a hop-head. Don't get me wrong, my tastes have
>definitely changed since starting homebrewing, and I do like much more
>hop flavor in my beer than previously. However, beers like IPAs just
>don't appeal to me. My dilemma is this, do I brew an APA that is on
>the high end of the IBU scale for this style, or one that matches more
>to my taste. I believe that judges, in general, are hop-heads. Not
>because they are beer snobs, but becuase the longer you drink homebrew
>the more accustomed you get to hops taste. As a result, I think APAs
>with higher BU:GU ratios will do better. Daniels' book seems to
>indicate this. He states a pale ale should have a BU:GU of 0.7 - 0.9.
>However, an APA like Sierra Nevada (which I like) is closer to 0.55. A
>BU:GU of 0.7 definitely puts you at the high end of the IBU scale for
>the APA style, and 0.9 puts you much more in the range of an IPA. So
>what would you guys do? Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
>I only have to give 60 oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going
>to have plenty left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it
>might go down easier :).
Why brew a beer that you don't like? I, too, don't like IPA's, so I
don't brew them. Rather than brew a beer not to style, brew one that
is.
Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 08:11:39
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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John M <statepenn99@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1149592253.918005.148360@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
So
> what would you guys do? Go for a win, or go for a beer you can drink?
> I only have to give 60 oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going
> to have plenty left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it
> might go down easier :).
Brew one with a more complex flavor. That does not have to mean more IBU.
Dunno what gravity you are shooting for, but let's say it is middle of the
road...1.053. Set your IBU level for the beer at 35 or so. Do things to
achieve that like FWH, low cohumolone hops, hop charges near the end, dry
hopping, etc...anything to add complexity. You can have a beer that is very
flavorful with hops, almost resinous, but it doesn't have to be overly
bittered...
There are a few ways to win IMO. One is to brew near the tops of the
styles. Another is to brew extremely complex beers. A third is to enter
comps where everyone else sucks. Three doesn't happen as much anymore and
you don't sound like you want to top out, so make it complex...
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 20:30:49
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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John M <statepenn99@gmail.com >:
>I am entering a competition in August, and I have a dilemma. I
>want to do an APA, but I'm not a hop-head. Don't get me wrong,
>my tastes have definitely changed since starting homebrewing,
>and I do like much more hop flavor in my beer than previously.
>However, beers like IPAs just don't appeal to me. My dilemma is
>this, do I brew an APA that is on the high end of the IBU scale
>for this style, or one that matches more to my taste. I believe
>that judges, in general, are hop-heads. Not because they are
>beer snobs, but becuase the longer you drink homebrew the more
>accustomed you get to hops taste. As a result, I think APAs
>with higher BU:GU ratios will do better. Daniels' book seems to
>indicate this. He states a pale ale should have a BU:GU of 0.7
>- 0.9. However, an APA like Sierra Nevada (which I like) is
>closer to 0.55. A BU:GU of 0.7 definitely puts you at the high
>end of the IBU scale for the APA style, and 0.9 puts you much
>more in the range of an IPA. So what would you guys do? Go for
>a win, or go for a beer you can drink? I only have to give 60
>oz of the beer for the competition, so I'm going to have plenty
>left. Of course, if it was an award-winning beer, it might go
>down easier :).
This kind of reminds me of breeding dogs for confirmation. The
whole rationale is that dog shows are about deciding what the
breed is, should be, and will become. But so many breeders breed
to whatever is winning, sometimes even at the expense of their
own ideas about what the breed really should be.
In a way, this is abdicating a responsibility -- like gaming the
system, instead of putting in your honest $.02. I say make your
best case for what an APA should be, and let the chips fall where
they may.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 17:27:28
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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But so many breeders breed
to whatever is winning, sometimes even at the expense of their
own ideas about what the breed really should be.
I hear ya...kinda leaves no room for experimentation...too rigid and who
makes all those rules anyways?...Anarchy is the only way :)
Gerard
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 10:00:02
From: John M
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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Joel wrote:
> Add in the fact that you
> may well brew a beer you don't like that *doesn't* win anything,
> and you may have your own answer.
> --
Thanks for all the responses. I just wanted to see if others wrestle
with their competitive side as much as I do. I figured the consesus
would be to brew for taste and not for score. Anyways, I think Joel
stated it best. The downside of a beer I don't like that also doesn't
score seems the worse fate. I like MDixon's advice, and will probably
shoot for a BU:GU lower than the recommended 0.7, but with special
attention to the hop type and when/how it is added.
John
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 14:25:04
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Brew to taste or brew to win?
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I wouldn't say I'm so competative but I am a perfectionist. I plan on
brewing more for me but if I ever make a batch I feel is very tasty I would
definately consider competition. So I guees I'm competative but I won't
enter something I personally don't like. Guess I'll never be a beer
judge...lol...I'm too biased as I am with my cooking..not always in concert
with what experts say but what fun is following so many nit pick
rules...have fun and enter what you think tastes good.
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