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Main
Date: 10 Aug 2006 04:51:30
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Breakfast stouts
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I have heard rumors of this infamous "Founder's Breakfast Stout" that
slides out of the bottle, stays black even if held against the sun, and
combines caffeine with high alcohol such that you don't know whether you
want to go to sleep or straddle the ceiling. It also has a chocolate
flavor as well.
Unfortunately, I cannot get my mittens on it, and have pondered the
whole idea. Awhile back I tried to make a "praline beer" which ended up
having little nut character at all. It currently lives its life as a
wee heavy. So perhaps I will try this again, and propose a recipe--for
a beer I have never had.
7lbs 6-row (because I have a sack of it)
2lbs flaked oats
2lbs chocolate malt (steeped)
2lbs red winter wheat malt (because I made it--75% strength, modifies on
its own)
Add 1lb of lactose in the boil.
With a low attenuation I can expect an OG 1.066 and an FG of 1.023; I
want higher, but StrangeBrew might not be factoring in lactose; it sure
seems to ferment according to the calculator.
I've heard recommendations to steep roasted malts instead of mash. I'll
take it either way though.
Hops
1oz East Kent Goldings pellets @ 60min (5% AA?)
1oz Fuggles @ 20min (4.5% AA?)
IBU's should be 25.5 with that recipe.
If it's not chocolatly enough, I'll have some cocoa powder on standby
after the sparge. I want it to come out strong before the boil, when
the sugars should make such a flavor very obvious.
Let me know what strikes you odd about this recipe, as well as what
doesn't strike you as particularly odd. I'm trying to be a little silly.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:58:59
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:51:30 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have heard rumors of this infamous "Founder's Breakfast Stout" that
> slides out of the bottle, stays black even if held against the sun, and
> combines caffeine with high alcohol such that you don't know whether you
> want to go to sleep or straddle the ceiling. It also has a chocolate
> flavor as well.
Personally I'm not a big fan of mixing stimulants and depressants at the
same time. Done in high enough quantity, it can probably do some bad
things to you.
> Unfortunately, I cannot get my mittens on it, and have pondered the
> whole idea. Awhile back I tried to make a "praline beer" which ended up
> having little nut character at all. It currently lives its life as a
> wee heavy. So perhaps I will try this again, and propose a recipe--for
> a beer I have never had.
>
> 7lbs 6-row (because I have a sack of it)
> 2lbs flaked oats
> 2lbs chocolate malt (steeped)
> 2lbs red winter wheat malt (because I made it--75% strength, modifies on
> its own)
IMO, it's going to be more of a porter than a stout. Although, chocolate
malt as the only dark grain does make a really nice porter.
> Add 1lb of lactose in the boil.
> With a low attenuation I can expect an OG 1.066 and an FG of 1.023; I
> want higher, but StrangeBrew might not be factoring in lactose; it sure
> seems to ferment according to the calculator.
I believe lactose is unfermentable (or close to it), so it will raise
your FG by a lot. FG predictions in software are always just guesses
though.
> I've heard recommendations to steep roasted malts instead of mash. I'll
> take it either way though.
I believe this is mostly about your water chemistry. Some people have
found that mashing the dark malts gives them harshness and some
astringency. If that's the case then steeping would probably work better.
However, I think this is more of an exception than the rule. I think
most people should be able to throw the dark grains into the mash without
any problems. Either way will work though. The dark grains don't
require mashing, so you can really do either.
I don't know if this is really a factor with chocolate malt though. Usually
it's things like black patent and roasted barley that cause this. I don't
know how acidic chocolate malt is compared to the other dark grains.
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 00:32:11
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Personally I'm not a big fan of mixing stimulants and depressants at the
> same time. Done in high enough quantity, it can probably do some bad
> things to you.
I've made some coffee stouts in the past. Generally, I'll set aside a
quantity for coffee and will add it at the end or right at bottling.
For all the people that have tried it, there certainly wasn't a
complication that I know. They could all be slowly going nuts, but so
am I and I don't even drink the espresso stouts. :)
What I wanted to do with the coffee would be a bit milder. I was
planning to use the coffee to get that last bitter/stout flavor along
with a light coffee flavor with caffeine.
> IMO, it's going to be more of a porter than a stout. Although, chocolate
> malt as the only dark grain does make a really nice porter.
Is that due to quantity, or just flavor? I've used black patent before
and didn't really like it. I used ~4.4 ounces (scaling up a recipe due
to my poor efficiency at the time).
Austin Homebrew has some Moravian Black Malt that I might try instead if
you think it needs something like a dark roast.
> I believe lactose is unfermentable (or close to it), so it will raise
> your FG by a lot. FG predictions in software are always just guesses
> though.
I can believe that, but this would be a wild variance.
> I believe this is mostly about your water chemistry. Some people have
> found that mashing the dark malts gives them harshness and some
> astringency. If that's the case then steeping would probably work better.
> However, I think this is more of an exception than the rule. I think
> most people should be able to throw the dark grains into the mash without
> any problems. Either way will work though. The dark grains don't
> require mashing, so you can really do either.
OK. Last time I just threw them in the mash and didn't get that kind of
flavor. It was just that it was a little too roasted for my preference.
Part of that might have been a low terminal gravity; there wasn't as
much sweetness to compensate. I don't think a few gravity points would
have been too significant though.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:25:43
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:32:11 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
>> IMO, it's going to be more of a porter than a stout. Although, chocolate
>> malt as the only dark grain does make a really nice porter.
>
> Is that due to quantity, or just flavor? I've used black patent before
> and didn't really like it. I used ~4.4 ounces (scaling up a recipe due
> to my poor efficiency at the time).
>
> Austin Homebrew has some Moravian Black Malt that I might try instead if
> you think it needs something like a dark roast.
Flavor mostly. Many people do say that they don't like the harshness that
black patent gives. IMO, roasted barley is one of the key flavors that
makes a stout though. I'm not saying it will be a bad beer, I make similar
recipes all the time where chocolate is the only dark grain, and it's one
of my favorites. I'd call it more of a porter though.
>> I believe lactose is unfermentable (or close to it), so it will raise
>> your FG by a lot. FG predictions in software are always just guesses
>> though.
>
>> I believe this is mostly about your water chemistry. Some people have
>> found that mashing the dark malts gives them harshness and some
>> astringency. If that's the case then steeping would probably work better.
>> However, I think this is more of an exception than the rule. I think
>> most people should be able to throw the dark grains into the mash without
>> any problems. Either way will work though. The dark grains don't
>> require mashing, so you can really do either.
>
> OK. Last time I just threw them in the mash and didn't get that kind of
> flavor. It was just that it was a little too roasted for my preference.
> Part of that might have been a low terminal gravity; there wasn't as
> much sweetness to compensate. I don't think a few gravity points would
> have been too significant though.
Sounds like it was just an objection to the dark grains in general rather
than any water chemistry issues with the acidity. IMO, I think you'll be
fine mashing the chocolate. However, it won't hurt anything to add them
afterwards. It's up to you.
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:31:00
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Personally I'm not a big fan of mixing stimulants and depressants at the
> same time. Done in high enough quantity, it can probably do some bad
> things to you.
A few years ago, we called them "goof balls". However, I have no personal
recollection of ever having tried them.
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:56:43
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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Larry Bristol <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com > writes:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
> > Personally I'm not a big fan of mixing stimulants and depressants at the
> > same time. Done in high enough quantity, it can probably do some bad
> > things to you.
>
> A few years ago, we called them "goof balls". However, I have no personal
> recollection of ever having tried them.
>
Ah, a clear symptom of having done so!
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:21:52
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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Don Levey wrote:
> Larry Bristol <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com> writes:
>> A few years ago, we called them "goof balls". However, I have no
>> personal recollection of ever having tried them.
>>
> Ah, a clear symptom of having done so!
Those who can remember the 60s weren't there.
Nostalgia just isn't as good as it used to be.
[Why do you encourage me like that?!?]
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:33:39
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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Adam Preble <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have heard rumors of this infamous "Founder's Breakfast Stout" that
> slides out of the bottle, stays black even if held against the sun, and
> combines caffeine with high alcohol such that you don't know whether you
> want to go to sleep or straddle the ceiling. It also has a chocolate
> flavor as well.
>
> Unfortunately, I cannot get my mittens on it, and have pondered the
> whole idea. Awhile back I tried to make a "praline beer" which ended up
> having little nut character at all. It currently lives its life as a
> wee heavy. So perhaps I will try this again, and propose a recipe--for
> a beer I have never had.
>
> 7lbs 6-row (because I have a sack of it)
> 2lbs flaked oats
> 2lbs chocolate malt (steeped)
> 2lbs red winter wheat malt (because I made it--75% strength, modifies on
> its own)
>
> Add 1lb of lactose in the boil.
> With a low attenuation I can expect an OG 1.066 and an FG of 1.023; I
> want higher, but StrangeBrew might not be factoring in lactose; it sure
> seems to ferment according to the calculator.
>
> I've heard recommendations to steep roasted malts instead of mash. I'll
> take it either way though.
>
> Hops
> 1oz East Kent Goldings pellets @ 60min (5% AA?)
> 1oz Fuggles @ 20min (4.5% AA?)
>
> IBU's should be 25.5 with that recipe.
>
> If it's not chocolatly enough, I'll have some cocoa powder on standby
> after the sparge. I want it to come out strong before the boil, when
> the sugars should make such a flavor very obvious.
>
> Let me know what strikes you odd about this recipe, as well as what
> doesn't strike you as particularly odd. I'm trying to be a little silly.
I've had Guinness for breakfast several dozen times in my life.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:08:32
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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John Bleichert <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
>I've had Guinness for breakfast several dozen times in my life.
The first year I judged an AHA NHC final, I had
a flight of barleywine for breakfast. Nothing like
judging 18 barleywines first thing in the morning
after being out late the night before.
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 14:00:19
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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Joel <plutchak@see.headers > wrote:
> John Bleichert <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>I've had Guinness for breakfast several dozen times in my life.
>
> The first year I judged an AHA NHC final, I had
> a flight of barleywine for breakfast. Nothing like
> judging 18 barleywines first thing in the morning
> after being out late the night before.
Although I play guitar, I come from a *large* family of drummers and
bagpipers. Guinness and Newcastle for breakfast are a way of life at
weekend-long band events...
X-)
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:28:35
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
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John Bleichert wrote:
> I've had Guinness for breakfast several dozen times in my life.
BRILLIANT!
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 04:52:50
From:
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
Dick Adams wrote:
> Adam Preble <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have heard rumors of this infamous "Founder's Breakfast Stout" that
> > slides out of the bottle, stays black even if held against the sun, and
> > combines caffeine with high alcohol such that you don't know whether you
> > want to go to sleep or straddle the ceiling. It also has a chocolate
> > flavor as well.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I cannot get my mittens on it, and have pondered the
> > whole idea. Awhile back I tried to make a "praline beer" which ended up
> > having little nut character at all. It currently lives its life as a
> > wee heavy. So perhaps I will try this again, and propose a recipe--for
> > a beer I have never had.
> >
> > 7lbs 6-row (because I have a sack of it)
> > 2lbs flaked oats
> > 2lbs chocolate malt (steeped)
> > 2lbs red winter wheat malt (because I made it--75% strength, modifies on
> > its own)
> >
> > Add 1lb of lactose in the boil.
> > With a low attenuation I can expect an OG 1.066 and an FG of 1.023; I
> > want higher, but StrangeBrew might not be factoring in lactose; it sure
> > seems to ferment according to the calculator.
> >
> > I've heard recommendations to steep roasted malts instead of mash. I'll
> > take it either way though.
> >
> > Hops
> > 1oz East Kent Goldings pellets @ 60min (5% AA?)
> > 1oz Fuggles @ 20min (4.5% AA?)
> >
> > IBU's should be 25.5 with that recipe.
> >
> > If it's not chocolatly enough, I'll have some cocoa powder on standby
> > after the sparge. I want it to come out strong before the boil, when
> > the sugars should make such a flavor very obvious.
> >
> > Let me know what strikes you odd about this recipe, as well as what
> > doesn't strike you as particularly odd. I'm trying to be a little silly.
>
> Beer Advocate cites Founder's Breakfast Stout as 8.30% ABV. Your
> OG and FG (by my calculations) gets you to less that 6.0% ABV.
>
> Bells in Kalamazoo is already on my itinerary for my next trip
> to Chicago. Founders in Grand Rapids just got added.
>
> Aren't all craft beers meant for breakfast?
>
> Dick
I thought the only thing that made a beer a "breakfast" beer was the
size of the bottle. I mean, why else have 12 oz bottles?
b.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:12:58
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
Adam Preble <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have heard rumors of this infamous "Founder's Breakfast Stout" that
> slides out of the bottle, stays black even if held against the sun, and
> combines caffeine with high alcohol such that you don't know whether you
> want to go to sleep or straddle the ceiling. It also has a chocolate
> flavor as well.
>
> Unfortunately, I cannot get my mittens on it, and have pondered the
> whole idea. Awhile back I tried to make a "praline beer" which ended up
> having little nut character at all. It currently lives its life as a
> wee heavy. So perhaps I will try this again, and propose a recipe--for
> a beer I have never had.
>
> 7lbs 6-row (because I have a sack of it)
> 2lbs flaked oats
> 2lbs chocolate malt (steeped)
> 2lbs red winter wheat malt (because I made it--75% strength, modifies on
> its own)
>
> Add 1lb of lactose in the boil.
> With a low attenuation I can expect an OG 1.066 and an FG of 1.023; I
> want higher, but StrangeBrew might not be factoring in lactose; it sure
> seems to ferment according to the calculator.
>
> I've heard recommendations to steep roasted malts instead of mash. I'll
> take it either way though.
>
> Hops
> 1oz East Kent Goldings pellets @ 60min (5% AA?)
> 1oz Fuggles @ 20min (4.5% AA?)
>
> IBU's should be 25.5 with that recipe.
>
> If it's not chocolatly enough, I'll have some cocoa powder on standby
> after the sparge. I want it to come out strong before the boil, when
> the sugars should make such a flavor very obvious.
>
> Let me know what strikes you odd about this recipe, as well as what
> doesn't strike you as particularly odd. I'm trying to be a little silly.
Beer Advocate cites Founder's Breakfast Stout as 8.30% ABV. Your
OG and FG (by my calculations) gets you to less that 6.0% ABV.
Bells in Kalamazoo is already on my itinerary for my next trip
to Chicago. Founders in Grand Rapids just got added.
Aren't all craft beers meant for breakfast?
Dick
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 13:36:10
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
Dick Adams wrote:
> Beer Advocate cites Founder's Breakfast Stout as 8.30% ABV. Your
> OG and FG (by my calculations) gets you to less that 6.0% ABV.
Good point; I don't know if I want that kind of alcohol at breakfast. I
forgot to mention I was toning down a tad there.
Another I didn't mention is I'd probably put coffee in it. The way I've
been doing that lately is a adding a concentrated quantity in near
bottling time.
> Bells in Kalamazoo is already on my itinerary for my next trip
> to Chicago. Founders in Grand Rapids just got added.
It isn't on tap there at the moment though. :(
> Aren't all craft beers meant for breakfast?
Maybe for 1st breakfast--but then you have to go back to sleep and have
2nd breakfast later.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 02:41:18
From: Thomas Adams
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
"Adam Preble" <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:mXyCg.229$1D.85@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I have heard rumors of this infamous "Founder's Breakfast Stout" that
> slides out of the bottle, stays black even if held against the sun, and
> combines caffeine with high alcohol such that you don't know whether you
> want to go to sleep or straddle the ceiling. It also has a chocolate
> flavor as well.
>
> Unfortunately, I cannot get my mittens on it, and have pondered the
> whole idea. Awhile back I tried to make a "praline beer" which ended up
> having little nut character at all. It currently lives its life as a
> wee heavy. So perhaps I will try this again, and propose a recipe--for
> a beer I have never had.
>
> 7lbs 6-row (because I have a sack of it)
> 2lbs flaked oats
> 2lbs chocolate malt (steeped)
> 2lbs red winter wheat malt (because I made it--75% strength, modifies on
> its own)
>
> Add 1lb of lactose in the boil.
> With a low attenuation I can expect an OG 1.066 and an FG of 1.023; I
> want higher, but StrangeBrew might not be factoring in lactose; it sure
> seems to ferment according to the calculator.
>
> I've heard recommendations to steep roasted malts instead of mash. I'll
> take it either way though.
>
> Hops
> 1oz East Kent Goldings pellets @ 60min (5% AA?)
> 1oz Fuggles @ 20min (4.5% AA?)
>
> IBU's should be 25.5 with that recipe.
>
> If it's not chocolatly enough, I'll have some cocoa powder on standby
> after the sparge. I want it to come out strong before the boil, when
> the sugars should make such a flavor very obvious.
>
> Let me know what strikes you odd about this recipe, as well as what
> doesn't strike you as particularly odd. I'm trying to be a little silly.
I have found that Oatmeal Stouts work great for breakfast. This way you
still get your fiber as well. I have one now that I brewed with extra oats
and has a great residual sweetness as well. It is like porridge in a bottle
without all the mess. I may try adding some chocolate or coffee next batch
for grins. I have been told to cold brew your coffee overnight and add to
primary with cooled wort. Cold brewing reduces the acidic bite.
--
Thomas Cameron Adams
imcelt2@redrivercamerons.org
darkhorsebrewing@verizon.net
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 05:41:10
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
Thomas Adams wrote:
> I have found that Oatmeal Stouts work great for breakfast. This way you
> still get your fiber as well. I have one now that I brewed with extra oats
> and has a great residual sweetness as well. It is like porridge in a bottle
As I don't know you well, I have to ask what is "extra oats" by your
standards. I thought I was going for it here but if one can
successfully brew with a higher percentage of them then I'd have to try
it in this recipe.
> without all the mess. I may try adding some chocolate or coffee next batch
> for grins. I have been told to cold brew your coffee overnight and add to
> primary with cooled wort. Cold brewing reduces the acidic bite.
>
Point well taken. Thanks.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:20:58
From: Thomas Adams
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
"Adam Preble" <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:WLUCg.1677$1D.522@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Thomas Adams wrote:
>
> > I have found that Oatmeal Stouts work great for breakfast. This way you
> > still get your fiber as well. I have one now that I brewed with extra
oats
> > and has a great residual sweetness as well. It is like porridge in a
bottle
>
> As I don't know you well, I have to ask what is "extra oats" by your
> standards. I thought I was going for it here but if one can
> successfully brew with a higher percentage of them then I'd have to try
> it in this recipe.
>
> > without all the mess. I may try adding some chocolate or coffee next
batch
> > for grins. I have been told to cold brew your coffee overnight and add
to
> > primary with cooled wort. Cold brewing reduces the acidic bite.
> >
>
> Point well taken. Thanks.
I used two full pounds of oats along with 1 lb. of cara-pils for body. I
don't do all grain, just partial mash. I also use dark lme if I want a
little extra sweetness, It doesn't seem to ferment out as dry as light or
amber. I have used 6 oz.of maltose at the end of boil for body in place of
the cara-pils. It works fine. The key to these stouts seems to be a thick
chewy mouthfeel. Lactose will add sweetness and some body as well. I usually
wait and add this at bottling time with the priming sugar. I can tailor the
level on sweet better this way.
BTW, I am over in Bryan. I believe that you are in Austin. We need to trade
some full bottles sometime.
--
Thomas Cameron Adams
imcelt2@redrivercamerons.org
darkhorsebrewing@verizon.net
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 04:58:44
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
Thomas Adams wrote:
> BTW, I am over in Bryan. I believe that you are in Austin. We need to trade
> some full bottles sometime.
>
I also noticed you mentioned "full bottles." Have you ever had an empty
bottle trade? Did somebody show up to a bottle exchange with some empty
bottles and say, "Hey, I thought you wanted to see these cool bottles I
got outside some bar!" That'd be the day hah...
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 04:57:07
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
Thomas Adams wrote:
> BTW, I am over in Bryan. I believe that you are in Austin. We need to trade
> some full bottles sometime.
I'm new to the area and I had to look up whereabouts that is. I don't
plan to go out that ways anytime soon, but sure if there's ever a chance.
I think I need to make a care package of all the strange crap I've made
because it's come up a few times. It'd include:
1. "praline" beer
2. Peach beer made by mixing all my failures together
3. 100% homemade wheat malt hefeweizen
4. This whenever I make it and find a siphon strong enough to rack it
out of a fermenter. ;)
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 04:44:06
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Breakfast stouts
|
> Is that due to quantity, or just flavor? I've used black patent before
> and didn't really like it. I used ~4.4 ounces (scaling up a recipe due
> to my poor efficiency at the time).
Personally I didn't like the flavor of the patent in a Porter I made at
all when it was young, but as it aged out (in about 6 months) it
smoothed out to the point where it was desirable. Of course, I only had
2 bottles left at that point though :)
--Jeff
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