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Date: 31 Jul 2006 15:11:28
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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Hello All
Had one of these this weekend:
http://en.ayinger-bier.de/?pid=122&par=82
It was delicious. I'd like to try to recreate it, but the description
on that page confuses me. How can a weisse be top-fermented? I thought
weisse beers were wheat-ish lagers? Does that stuff use an ale yeast?
Am I reading too far into it?
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 08:38:35
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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John Bleichert wrote:
> Hello All
>
> Had one of these this weekend:
>
> http://en.ayinger-bier.de/?pid=122&par=82
>
> It was delicious. I'd like to try to recreate it, but the description
> on that page confuses me. How can a weisse be top-fermented? I thought
> weisse beers were wheat-ish lagers? Does that stuff use an ale yeast?
> Am I reading too far into it?
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
You're looking for a hefeweizen yeast which are top fermenting. WLP300
is an example. Like an ale yeast, it produces lots of esters. With
hefeweizen yeast it's usually mild banana and clove flavours.
The good part is they're pretty easy (and cheap) to brew. Typically you
could use 50/50 barley and wheat malt (or extract), and very small
amounts of hallertau hops around the 12 IBU mark. The important part is
the yeast.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 16:59:16
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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GeoffT <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>
>> Hello All
>>
>> Had one of these this weekend:
>>
>> http://en.ayinger-bier.de/?pid=122&par=82
>>
>> It was delicious. I'd like to try to recreate it, but the description
>> on that page confuses me. How can a weisse be top-fermented? I thought
>> weisse beers were wheat-ish lagers? Does that stuff use an ale yeast?
>> Am I reading too far into it?
>>
>
> You're looking for a hefeweizen yeast which are top fermenting. WLP300
> is an example. Like an ale yeast, it produces lots of esters. With
> hefeweizen yeast it's usually mild banana and clove flavours.
>
> The good part is they're pretty easy (and cheap) to brew. Typically you
> could use 50/50 barley and wheat malt (or extract), and very small
> amounts of hallertau hops around the 12 IBU mark. The important part is
> the yeast.
>
Cool, thanks. WLP300 is listed as an ale yeast. No wonder I didn't see
it. I'll have to re-read Daniels' section on this style tonight.
Thanks for the whack with the clarification stick!
JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 14:46:09
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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John Bleichert wrote:
> MarkMc <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > I may be wrong, but from memory, I seem to recall that Daniels has
> > nothing on this style at all.
> <massive snippage>
>
> There is a section at the end of the book on wheat beers, though it is
> nowhere near as robust as the other beer style sections. Too bad. Also,
> he doesn't mention which "base malt" to use with wheat malt. I'm
> assuming, since it's German, pale pilsner malt.
>
> Thanks - JB
>
That would be traditional, but i've used maris otter with good results.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 22:57:10
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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GeoffT <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>
>> MarkMc <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > I may be wrong, but from memory, I seem to recall that Daniels has
>> > nothing on this style at all.
>> <massive snippage>
>>
>> There is a section at the end of the book on wheat beers, though it is
>> nowhere near as robust as the other beer style sections. Too bad. Also,
>> he doesn't mention which "base malt" to use with wheat malt. I'm
>> assuming, since it's German, pale pilsner malt.
>>
>> Thanks - JB
>>
>
> That would be traditional, but i've used maris otter with good results.
>
Excellent! I've got 45 lbs of Marris Otter downstairs!
:-)
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 12:10:40
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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> Wow. I looked at the BJCP guide - 8-15 IBUs. That means with Hallertau
> (at say 4%) I'd want 0.75 oz for bittering and .25 for flavor/aroma
> (probably FWH), according to my quick calculations. I think that would
> put me at the high end, around 15.
>
> Certainly an inexpensive beer to brew. Can I crack the wheat malt
> with my PhilMill? I assume it's at least a different size kernel than
> barley.
>
> Thanks!
>
I think there is a wheat beer section in Daniels' book.
Keep the IBU's low, certainly not over 15. It's a beer of yeast
character, not hops.
>From recollection wheat malt is fairly soft and I don't think you'd
have a problem milling it.
As mentioned, pitch low and ferment around 18C-20C. Much higher and you
get the less desirable banana-y esters.
Good luck, anyway. This is one of my favourite styles to brew. Check
out the seasonal (july-aug) hefe yeast available from white labs -
never tried it but I hear it's good.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 10:41:28
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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I may be wrong, but from memory, I seem to recall that Daniels has
nothing on this style at all.
There's not a lot to a HefeWeizen, choose how much Wheat you want - 50%
Wheat - 50% pale is a good start (any more and there is the very real
potential for a slow run-off), some add some munich malt for body, say
5%, but I don't really see the need, not for the first attempt at
least.
And as stated by another poster, use a noble hop such as Hallertauer
for bittering. See BJCP for the required range.
IIRC, ferment at ale-ish temperatures - see the spec of your chosen
Weizen yeast, there is an old German saying that the sum of the
pitching and fermenting temperatures should be 30C and all will be
well. Obviously don't pitch at 29C and crash to 1C, but pitching at
18C and fermenting at 12C or visa-versa will be fine.
A nice benefit is that you can drink these quite young - i.e they don't
need much aging at all.
Regards,
Mark
John Bleichert wrote:
> GeoffT <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > John Bleichert wrote:
> >
> >> Hello All
> >>
> >> Had one of these this weekend:
> >>
> >> http://en.ayinger-bier.de/?pid=122&par=82
> >>
> >> It was delicious. I'd like to try to recreate it, but the description
> >> on that page confuses me. How can a weisse be top-fermented? I thought
> >> weisse beers were wheat-ish lagers? Does that stuff use an ale yeast?
> >> Am I reading too far into it?
> >>
> >
> > You're looking for a hefeweizen yeast which are top fermenting. WLP300
> > is an example. Like an ale yeast, it produces lots of esters. With
> > hefeweizen yeast it's usually mild banana and clove flavours.
> >
> > The good part is they're pretty easy (and cheap) to brew. Typically you
> > could use 50/50 barley and wheat malt (or extract), and very small
> > amounts of hallertau hops around the 12 IBU mark. The important part is
> > the yeast.
> >
>
> Cool, thanks. WLP300 is listed as an ale yeast. No wonder I didn't see
> it. I'll have to re-read Daniels' section on this style tonight.
>
> Thanks for the whack with the clarification stick!
>
> JB
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 21:33:11
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
|
MarkMc <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I may be wrong, but from memory, I seem to recall that Daniels has
> nothing on this style at all.
<massive snippage >
There is a section at the end of the book on wheat beers, though it is
nowhere near as robust as the other beer style sections. Too bad. Also,
he doesn't mention which "base malt" to use with wheat malt. I'm
assuming, since it's German, pale pilsner malt.
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
|
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 18:53:35
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
|
MarkMc <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I may be wrong, but from memory, I seem to recall that Daniels has
> nothing on this style at all.
>
> There's not a lot to a HefeWeizen, choose how much Wheat you want - 50%
> Wheat - 50% pale is a good start (any more and there is the very real
> potential for a slow run-off), some add some munich malt for body, say
> 5%, but I don't really see the need, not for the first attempt at
> least.
>
> And as stated by another poster, use a noble hop such as Hallertauer
> for bittering. See BJCP for the required range.
>
Wow. I looked at the BJCP guide - 8-15 IBUs. That means with Hallertau
(at say 4%) I'd want 0.75 oz for bittering and .25 for flavor/aroma
(probably FWH), according to my quick calculations. I think that would
put me at the high end, around 15.
Certainly an inexpensive beer to brew. Can I crack the wheat malt
with my PhilMill? I assume it's at least a different size kernel than
barley.
Thanks!
> IIRC, ferment at ale-ish temperatures - see the spec of your chosen
> Weizen yeast, there is an old German saying that the sum of the
> pitching and fermenting temperatures should be 30C and all will be
> well. Obviously don't pitch at 29C and crash to 1C, but pitching at
> 18C and fermenting at 12C or visa-versa will be fine.
>
> A nice benefit is that you can drink these quite young - i.e they don't
> need much aging at all.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> GeoffT <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > John Bleichert wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello All
>> >>
>> >> Had one of these this weekend:
>> >>
>> >> http://en.ayinger-bier.de/?pid=122&par=82
>> >>
>> >> It was delicious. I'd like to try to recreate it, but the description
>> >> on that page confuses me. How can a weisse be top-fermented? I thought
>> >> weisse beers were wheat-ish lagers? Does that stuff use an ale yeast?
>> >> Am I reading too far into it?
>> >>
>> >
>> > You're looking for a hefeweizen yeast which are top fermenting. WLP300
>> > is an example. Like an ale yeast, it produces lots of esters. With
>> > hefeweizen yeast it's usually mild banana and clove flavours.
>> >
>> > The good part is they're pretty easy (and cheap) to brew. Typically you
>> > could use 50/50 barley and wheat malt (or extract), and very small
>> > amounts of hallertau hops around the 12 IBU mark. The important part is
>> > the yeast.
>> >
>>
>> Cool, thanks. WLP300 is listed as an ale yeast. No wonder I didn't see
>> it. I'll have to re-read Daniels' section on this style tonight.
>>
>> Thanks for the whack with the clarification stick!
>>
>> JB
>>
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 19:30:11
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Ayinger Ur-Weisse
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On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:53:35 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Certainly an inexpensive beer to brew. Can I crack the wheat malt
> with my PhilMill? I assume it's at least a different size kernel than
> barley.
Wheat is usually smaller than barley. You should be fine if your PhilMill is
adjustable.
John.
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