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Date: 04 Jun 2006 00:28:46
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
Suggestions.
Dick
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 19:27:28
From: Sean
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Dick Adams wrote:
>
> I have the equipment to go all-grain, but am waiting to get a
> patio poured before I put it all together.
>
> > I'd probably say still, that anything less than 14 gallons
> > won't really help much.
>
> So 15 to 20 gallons should be good?
Go for the twenty. I could run down the math on my last batch but I'll
spare the tedious and just say this: I've never seen any home brewer
who didn't try to push things a bit.
I (re)read a barleywine recipe that said "make ten gallons if you can
since you'll want to drink some and age some". I'm pretty sure it was a
46# grain bill!
Ever want to make an Imperial Kolsch? ;) Well, you could!
Best of luck!
Sean
PS: Hope your patio is in the back of the house. I had an unmarked
state vehicle do a not-so-subtle drive-by at my house when I was using
my new system in the driveway..........I wonder if they thought I was
distilling?
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 18:28:33
From: Sean
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Dick Adams wrote:
> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>
> Suggestions.
>
> Dick
I'd have to ask a few questions first.
Batch size ? Fly or batch sparging? and have I read correctly,
can't/shouldn't lift heavy items. What is your current set-up like?
I'd probably say still, that anything less than 14 gallons
won't really help much.
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 01:57:44
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Sean <s.mcnerney@insightbb.com > wrote:
> Dick Adams wrote:
>> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
>> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>>
>> Suggestions.
> I'd have to ask a few questions first.
> Batch size?
I used 25 lbs as a ballpark figure fo a 10-gal batch. But
I have the equipment to go up to 15 gallons. I bought out
another homebrewer.
> Fly or batch sparging?
Whichever requires a larger cooler.
> and have I read correctly, can't/shouldn't lift heavy items.
Correct - but I have a 15 yr old who is very strong and my
child bride helps move stuff.
> What is your current set-up like?
I have the equipment to go all-grain, but am waiting to get a
patio poured before I put it all together.
> I'd probably say still, that anything less than 14 gallons
> won't really help much.
So 15 to 20 gallons should be good?
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 06:12:51
From: Sean
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Adam Preble wrote:
> As a side note, the grain with the water is pretty heavy. A gallon
> weighs 8.33 pounds at 20C. For the 25 pound setup, you're looking at 77
> pounds at a minimum.
>
>
>
If the weight and moving is a problem, perhaps two mashes in
smaller coolers would be easier to manage. I've used a platform cart
like this at work occasionally for ice sculptures:
http://tinyurl.com/s98mb
A cool solution would be an expandable insulated container, it
would be as big as it needed to be (within limits).
Try the aspect ratio as Palmer says in HTB (chapter 17) and
determine volume from there.......FWIW, rectangular coolers seem to
manage this better for me.
HTH
Sean
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 08:31:03
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Dick Adams wrote:
> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>
> Suggestions.
>
> Dick
The praline beer I am trying to make uses 28 pounds of grain. I
discovered the hard way that I can't handle this kind of capacity in my
setup. I have a 10 gallon cooler, a 5 gallon pot, and a 7.5 gallon pot.
I eventually managed to sparge reasonably, but my efficiency was
horrible (less than 70%) and I had to augment with extract*.
10 gallons will hold the grain, but it must also hold the water. At a
minimum, consider a quart of water per pound. You will perhaps want to
go as high as 1.5 quarts per pound. You will need vessels to handle
heating that kind of water. At the low end, you're looking at 6.25
gallons of water with that grain. A 6 gallon pot won't do.
As a side note, the grain with the water is pretty heavy. A gallon
weighs 8.33 pounds at 20C. For the 25 pound setup, you're looking at 77
pounds at a minimum.
*Verdict not in yet. If my OG is way overtarget after I boil this down,
then adding extract was stupid. But I'm betting it was the right call.
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 19:02:30
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Adam Preble <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Dick Adams wrote:
>> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
>> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
> The praline beer I am trying to make uses 28 pounds of grain. I
> discovered the hard way that I can't handle this kind of capacity
> in my setup. I have a 10 gallon cooler, a 5 gallon pot, and a
> 7.5 gallon pot. I eventually managed to sparge reasonably, but
> my efficiency was horrible (less than 70%) and I had to augment
> with extract*.
One of the precepts of quality control is that attempts to overload
capacity are expected to result in an increase in costs and decreases
in quality and efficiency.
> 10 gallons will hold the grain, but it must also hold the water.
> At a minimum, consider a quart of water per pound. You will perhaps
> want to go as high as 1.5 quarts per pound. You will need vessels
> to handle heating that kind of water. At the low end, you're looking
> at 6.25 gallons of water with that grain. A 6 gallon pot won't do.
>
> As a side note, the grain with the water is pretty heavy. A gallon
> weighs 8.33 pounds at 20C. For the 25 pound setup, you're looking
> at 77 pounds at a minimum.
The weight issue is not part of the problem. It will be handled by a
brewery frame amd by other people. The problem is optimizing capacity.
So I am going to be looking at 15 to 25 gallon coolers.
Dick
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 17:42:23
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Adam Preble <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com >:
>Dick Adams wrote:
>> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
>> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>>
>> Suggestions.
>>
>> Dick
>The praline beer I am trying to make uses 28 pounds of grain. I
>discovered the hard way that I can't handle this kind of capacity in my
>setup. I have a 10 gallon cooler, a 5 gallon pot, and a 7.5 gallon pot.
> I eventually managed to sparge reasonably, but my efficiency was
>horrible (less than 70%) and I had to augment with extract*.
>10 gallons will hold the grain, but it must also hold the water. At a
>minimum, consider a quart of water per pound. You will perhaps want to
>go as high as 1.5 quarts per pound. You will need vessels to handle
>heating that kind of water. At the low end, you're looking at 6.25
>gallons of water with that grain. A 6 gallon pot won't do.
>As a side note, the grain with the water is pretty heavy. A gallon
>weighs 8.33 pounds at 20C. For the 25 pound setup, you're looking at 77
>pounds at a minimum.
This is something I copied at some point, probably from a google
search, could be from rcb past. I can't attribute it, but thanks
to whoever it was:
----------
Grain Volume
"I have a 5-gallon cooler that I would like to mash in. How much
grain will it hold?"
1 lb grain occupies about 0.08 gal or 0.32 quart when added to
water (and allowed to soak). 1 kg grain occupies about 0.67
liters when added to water (and allowed to soak).
Total volume of mash = Wg (0.08 + MWR/4) gallons
= Wg (0.32 + MWR) quarts
= Mg (0.67 + MMWR) liters
Wg = weight of grain (lbs)
MWR = Mash Water Ratio, qt/lb
Mg = Mass of grain (kg)
MMWR = Metric Mash Water Ratio, liters/kg
Example: 10 lb grain with a MWR of 1.3 qt/lb occupies
vol = 10 * (0.08 + 1.3 / 4)
= 4.05 gallons
----------
hth,
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 04 Jun 2006 19:00:38
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 00:28:46 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>
> Suggestions.
I can get close to 30 lbs in my 10 gallon cooler.
John.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 02:43:16
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>
> I can get close to 30 lbs in my 10 gallon cooler.
>
>
> John.
Shaggy, since I was mashing that much grain with that cooler capacity
this weekend, I'm curious how you manage to do this. I had to add
extract to get the gravity I wanted in the end, implying an efficiency
less than 70%.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 15:10:14
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:43:16 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>
>>
>> I can get close to 30 lbs in my 10 gallon cooler.
>>
>>
>> John.
>
> Shaggy, since I was mashing that much grain with that cooler capacity
> this weekend, I'm curious how you manage to do this. I had to add
> extract to get the gravity I wanted in the end, implying an efficiency
> less than 70%.
Your efficiency is always going to suffer when you make a high OG beer. That
has to do with how much you collect from the sparge though, and not really
anything about the mash tun being full to capacity.
If you had collected several more gallons than normal during the sparge and
then boiled it down for several hours, you would have gotten better
efficiency. Most people don't have the patience for that though. It's
a common problem for high OG beers.
John.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 16:05:15
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Your efficiency is always going to suffer when you make a high OG beer. That
> has to do with how much you collect from the sparge though, and not really
> anything about the mash tun being full to capacity.
>
> If you had collected several more gallons than normal during the sparge and
> then boiled it down for several hours, you would have gotten better
> efficiency. Most people don't have the patience for that though. It's
> a common problem for high OG beers.
I guess I should add that I've been batch sparging. I'm assuming you're
talking about fly sparging. I was able to cram the grains into the
cooler after I had sparged a little bit, but I certainly couldn't get it
with all the liquid.
I collected about 7.5 gallons when all was said and done. This was
after tossing in another gallon at 170F. The late runnings were very
clear, but the gravity of the late runnings seemed pretty high
regardless. How many gallons is "several more?" I assume I didn't get
enough but I want to know what I'm getting into.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 17:27:05
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 16:05:15 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> Your efficiency is always going to suffer when you make a high OG beer. That
>> has to do with how much you collect from the sparge though, and not really
>> anything about the mash tun being full to capacity.
>>
>> If you had collected several more gallons than normal during the sparge and
>> then boiled it down for several hours, you would have gotten better
>> efficiency. Most people don't have the patience for that though. It's
>> a common problem for high OG beers.
>
> I guess I should add that I've been batch sparging. I'm assuming you're
> talking about fly sparging. I was able to cram the grains into the
> cooler after I had sparged a little bit, but I certainly couldn't get it
> with all the liquid.
I usually fly sparge, so it makes it a bit easier with a full tun. I guess
you'd have to do a higher number of smaller batches when you are batch
sparging.
> I collected about 7.5 gallons when all was said and done. This was
> after tossing in another gallon at 170F. The late runnings were very
> clear, but the gravity of the late runnings seemed pretty high
> regardless. How many gallons is "several more?" I assume I didn't get
> enough but I want to know what I'm getting into.
The late runnings being high gravity definitely tells me that you are stopping
the sparge early. Like I said though, almost everyone does it that way. The
realities of collecting enough runoff for a high OG batch are just too
inconvenient for most people. If you want to hit your target OG without
using extract and are already maxing out your mash tun, then you'll need to
either collect until your runnings reach the rule of thumb 1.010 or else you'll
have to get a larger tun and compensate for the low efficieny by adding in
more grain. I don't know how much extra you would need to collect, I would
guess at least 2-3 more gallons than normal. The trouble is that it would
take a really long boil to get back to your target volume.
IMO, there is nothing wrong with using extract to supplement the wort in order
to reach your target OG. This is probably the easiest method for making
a big beer. It's what I would do if I made a beer that exceeded my tun
capacity.
John.
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 10:32:38
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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Dick Adams wrote:
>
> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>
> Suggestions.
I use a 48 qt. rectangualr cooler and can fit in 28 lb. of grain at 1
qt./lb. Tough to stir, though. That means I can make 10 gal. of a
1.055 beer or 5 gal. of a 1.100 beer. I f I had it to do over, I'd go
with a 70 qt. cooler, though.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 08:41:10
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Appropriate cooler size for a mash tun
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I figure 2.4 pounds capacity per gallon for mashing and 3 for lautering.
Dan
"Denny Conn" <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote in message
news:4485BC36.6DF90C6@ci.eugene.or.us...
> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>> For reasons of capacity, I want to replace my 5-gal cooler so
>> there is enough space for 25 lbs of grain.
>>
>> Suggestions.
>
> I use a 48 qt. rectangualr cooler and can fit in 28 lb. of grain at 1
> qt./lb. Tough to stir, though. That means I can make 10 gal. of a
> 1.055 beer or 5 gal. of a 1.100 beer. I f I had it to do over, I'd go
> with a 70 qt. cooler, though.
>
> ----------->Denny
>
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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