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Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:19:46
From: Andrew
Subject: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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I would like to further my brewing education, but do not wish to
relocate in order to do so. Does anyone have any experience with the
World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
(at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
Info: http://www.siebelinstitute.com/course_desc/web_concise.html
Cheers!
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 15:51:47
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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As a professional brewer, I'd say you would be better served by
offering your services at a local brewery...even if it means shoveling
the mash tun for a while. I'm sure you would learn some things, but 3K
is a little steep for a learn at home course.
If you are serious about spending money, go to UCDavis, or Siebel. I
know graduates who have found work after these programs. And remember,
brewers start by working long hours with little pay. But put in your
time and it can be a rewarding profession.
Wayne wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:02:00 -0800, Andrew wrote:
>
> >> > World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
> >>
> >> > There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
> >> > the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
> >> > (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
> >> > Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
> >
> >> You may get lucky, but I don't know of any professional brewers who
> >> participate in this group. We're mostly homebrewers.
> >>
> >> John.
> >
> >
> > Thanks, John. Actually, any input would be worthwhile, even that of a
> > homebrewer who just has some experience with their programs.
>
> I know someone who actually went to Chicago (and Munich) to take one
> of their courses and is now working at the Goose Island Brewery there.
> Would you care for any input from him? If so, let me know your mail
> address and I'll pass it on.
>
> Wayne
> --
> Registered Linux user #375994
> http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 23:40:08
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:02:00 -0800, Andrew wrote:
>> > World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
>>
>> > There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
>> > the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
>> > (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
>> > Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
>
>> You may get lucky, but I don't know of any professional brewers who
>> participate in this group. We're mostly homebrewers.
>>
>> John.
>
>
> Thanks, John. Actually, any input would be worthwhile, even that of a
> homebrewer who just has some experience with their programs.
I know someone who actually went to Chicago (and Munich) to take one
of their courses and is now working at the Goose Island Brewery there.
Would you care for any input from him? If so, let me know your mail
address and I'll pass it on.
Wayne
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 13:02:00
From: Andrew
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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On Nov 28, 12:25 pm, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <s...@shagg.net > wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 12:19:46 -0800, <compoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would like to further my brewing education, but do not wish to
> > relocate in order to do so. Does anyone have any experience with the
> > World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
>
> > There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
> > the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
> > (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
> > Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
> You may get lucky, but I don't know of any professional brewers who
> participate in this group. We're mostly homebrewers.
>
> John.
Thanks, John. Actually, any input would be worthwhile, even that of a
homebrewer who just has some experience with their programs.
Andrew
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 21:14:11
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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Andrew <compooter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Nov 28, 12:25 pm, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <s...@shagg.net> wrote:
>> On 27 Nov 2006 12:19:46 -0800, <compoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I would like to further my brewing education, but do not wish to
>> > relocate in order to do so. Does anyone have any experience with the
>> > World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
>>
>> > There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
>> > the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
>> > (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
>> > Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
>
>> You may get lucky, but I don't know of any professional brewers who
>> participate in this group. We're mostly homebrewers.
>>
>> John.
>
>
> Thanks, John. Actually, any input would be worthwhile, even that of a
> homebrewer who just has some experience with their programs.
>
> Andrew
>
At $3k USD per class session I don't think too many of us have taken
the course...
;-)
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 20:25:01
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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On 27 Nov 2006 12:19:46 -0800, <compooter@gmail.com > wrote:
> I would like to further my brewing education, but do not wish to
> relocate in order to do so. Does anyone have any experience with the
> World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
>
> There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
> the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
> (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
> Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
You may get lucky, but I don't know of any professional brewers who
participate in this group. We're mostly homebrewers.
John.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 09:24:28
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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Andrew wrote:
>
> I would like to further my brewing education, but do not wish to
> relocate in order to do so. Does anyone have any experience with the
> World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
>
> There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
> the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
> (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
> Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
>
> Info: http://www.siebelinstitute.com/course_desc/web_concise.html
>
> Cheers!
It really depends on if you just want to learn, or if you expect your
education to help you get emplyment in the industry. I know more tha a
few pro brewers, and not a single one of them attended a school. All
their knowledge came from expereince. Conversely, I know of more tha a
few people who have gone thorugh courses like that and found it did very
little to help them get a job.
-------------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 08:08:57
From: Andrew
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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Thanks for the input, everyone.
> As a professional brewer, I'd say you would be better served by
> offering your services at a local brewery...even if it means shoveling
> the mash tun for a while. I'm sure you would learn some things, but 3K
> is a little steep for a learn at home course.
While I don't dispute that hands-on training is definitely the best
experience, I guess I'm looking to get a more in-depth understanding of
the more technical bio/chemistry and business aspects involved with
brewing. Although, my guess is every good brewery employs at least one
person who should also be able to teach this material.
> If you are serious about spending money, go to UCDavis, or Siebel. I
> know graduates who have found work after these programs. And remember,
> brewers start by working long hours with little pay. But put in your
> time and it can be a rewarding profession.
This online course *is* offered by Siebel. I just can't afford to
travel to Chicago/Munich and shell out an ungodly amount of money
($15-30k) for their Associate or International Diploma program. I'm
basically just trying to find out if their abbreviated online course
contains enough solid instruction and information to justify its cost.
I'm also just trying to find anyone out there who has actual experience
with their online program.
Andrew
> Wayne wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:02:00 -0800, Andrew wrote:
>
> > >> > World Brewing Academy Web-based Concise Course in Brewing Technology?
>
> > >> > There is very limited information on their site and I'm interested to
> > >> > the opinions of professional brewers and those working in the industry
> > >> > (at any scale). Thumbs up/down? Is it worth it or a waste of money?
> > >> > Is the $3k better invested elsewhere?
>
> > >> You may get lucky, but I don't know of any professional brewers who
> > >> participate in this group. We're mostly homebrewers.
>
> > >> John.
>
> > > Thanks, John. Actually, any input would be worthwhile, even that of a
> > > homebrewer who just has some experience with their programs.
>
> > I know someone who actually went to Chicago (and Munich) to take one
> > of their courses and is now working at the Goose Island Brewery there.
> > Would you care for any input from him? If so, let me know your mail
> > address and I'll pass it on.
>
> > Wayne
> > --
> > Registered Linux user #375994
> >http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 11:53:09
From: Andrew
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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Fantastic advice. Thanks!
On Nov 29, 11:27 am, harvestwind...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I interviewed a UC Davis graduate a few months ago for an assistant
> brewer position here. I was going to hire him, but then he took a job
> with Pyramid that could offer him more hours and better benefits.
>
> So I ended up hiring a homebrewer who had alot of enthusiasm and a good
> personality. I'm glad it worked out like that too, I couldnt imagine a
> better assistant than who I have now.
>
> The thing about these programs is you get to attend classes with future
> brewers, meet industry professionals and network with them. That is
> equally as important as book knowledge. Also, you can know everything
> about the theroy of beer, diacetly, DMS, boil time, malliard reactions,
> isomerization...blah blah blah....but until you are in a brewery
> working on equipment, clamping butterfly clamps, getting your hands
> full, As an employer, I woldnt consider give you much preference over
> someone who homebrews and has enthusiasm.
>
> So if you just want to learn, you don't need to spend 3K. You can just
> find some literature, hang out with your local homebrew clubs (some of
> those guys know fantastic amounts about beer making and beer styles).
> But if you are serious about getting in the business, you need to start
> networking and visiting breweries. And if you want to borrow money to
> attend brewing school, you may as well borrow 7 more K and get a real
> hands on education where you will meet people and get a feel for the
> equipment.
>
> Also, out of the 20 or so brewers I know here in Portland, I'd say
> about half of them attended a brewing program. I didnt. But I'd like to
> attend the three month program in Munich one of these days. Problem is,
> the wife and bought a house here and now we lack the money to travel
> like we used to.
>
> Another thing to think about. Being a brewer is 15% brewing and 85%
> cleaning and dealing with equipment. Seriously consider attending
> micro-matics draft line school. And consider learning how to TIG weld
> stainless steel. These things will make you alot more appealing to a
> brewery. Especially small ones.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 11:27:02
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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I interviewed a UC Davis graduate a few months ago for an assistant
brewer position here. I was going to hire him, but then he took a job
with Pyramid that could offer him more hours and better benefits.
So I ended up hiring a homebrewer who had alot of enthusiasm and a good
personality. I'm glad it worked out like that too, I couldnt imagine a
better assistant than who I have now.
The thing about these programs is you get to attend classes with future
brewers, meet industry professionals and network with them. That is
equally as important as book knowledge. Also, you can know everything
about the theroy of beer, diacetly, DMS, boil time, malliard reactions,
isomerization...blah blah blah....but until you are in a brewery
working on equipment, clamping butterfly clamps, getting your hands
full, As an employer, I woldnt consider give you much preference over
someone who homebrews and has enthusiasm.
So if you just want to learn, you don't need to spend 3K. You can just
find some literature, hang out with your local homebrew clubs (some of
those guys know fantastic amounts about beer making and beer styles).
But if you are serious about getting in the business, you need to start
networking and visiting breweries. And if you want to borrow money to
attend brewing school, you may as well borrow 7 more K and get a real
hands on education where you will meet people and get a feel for the
equipment.
Also, out of the 20 or so brewers I know here in Portland, I'd say
about half of them attended a brewing program. I didnt. But I'd like to
attend the three month program in Munich one of these days. Problem is,
the wife and bought a house here and now we lack the money to travel
like we used to.
Another thing to think about. Being a brewer is 15% brewing and 85%
cleaning and dealing with equipment. Seriously consider attending
micro-matics draft line school. And consider learning how to TIG weld
stainless steel. These things will make you alot more appealing to a
brewery. Especially small ones.
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:44:38
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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<harvestwind_73@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I interviewed a UC Davis graduate a few months ago for an assistant
> brewer position here. I was going to hire him, but then he took a job
> with Pyramid that could offer him more hours and better benefits.
>
> So I ended up hiring a homebrewer who had alot of enthusiasm and a good
> personality. I'm glad it worked out like that too, I couldnt imagine a
> better assistant than who I have now.
>
> The thing about these programs is you get to attend classes with future
> brewers, meet industry professionals and network with them. That is
> equally as important as book knowledge. Also, you can know everything
> about the theroy of beer, diacetly, DMS, boil time, malliard reactions,
> isomerization...blah blah blah....but until you are in a brewery
> working on equipment, clamping butterfly clamps, getting your hands
> full, As an employer, I woldnt consider give you much preference over
> someone who homebrews and has enthusiasm.
You definitely made the right choice in this case if you wanted
competent laborer who possessed fundamental knowledge.
> So if you just want to learn, you don't need to spend 3K. You can just
> find some literature, hang out with your local homebrew clubs (some of
> those guys know fantastic amounts about beer making and beer styles).
> But if you are serious about getting in the business, you need to start
> networking and visiting breweries. And if you want to borrow money to
> attend brewing school, you may as well borrow 7 more K and get a real
> hands on education where you will meet people and get a feel for the
> equipment.
This is called being self-educated. I did it in the 60's at the
beginning of the main frame boom and I did very well. When I went
to grad school in the late 80's, I realized my knowledge was deep,
but very narrow. Reading books and trial-n-error is the hard way
to go. Whereas formal education minimizes the trial-n-error time
and costs.
> Also, out of the 20 or so brewers I know here in Portland, I'd say
> about half of them attended a brewing program. I didnt. But I'd like to
> attend the three month program in Munich one of these days. Problem is,
> the wife and bought a house here and now we lack the money to travel
> like we used to.
So just like the OP, it's a cost issue!
> Another thing to think about. Being a brewer is 15% brewing and 85%
> cleaning and dealing with equipment. Seriously consider attending
> micro-matics draft line school. And consider learning how to TIG weld
> stainless steel. These things will make you alot more appealing to a
> brewery. Especially small ones.
These are excellent suggestions, especially the TIG welding, for
homebrewers and people who simply want to work in a brewery. But
someone who is laying out big bucks is almost certainly aspiring
to run a brewery and wants to learn the business in depth.
Dick
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:16:55
From:
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with WBA's online courses?
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Plus if you learn how to TIG weld really well, you will have the added
benefit of making really good money in that field if brewing never
happens
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