Anyone gone back to bottling?

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Date: 20 Nov 2006 12:13:51
From: Bob the Brewer
Subject: Anyone gone back to bottling?

I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
kits for kegging.

It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?

Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
tap.

It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
beer lines and other hard to clean equipment, and dealing with
dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
headaches.

Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
hadn't?

As I've mentioned in some of my other recent posts, brewing time is
very limited, so I would only want to add another element if it would
reduce the time commitment, not increase it.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Date: 21 Nov 2006 04:07:16
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Although I never wanted to bottle, I started with 1 liter
soda bottles. I raised my primary volume above 5 gallons
and added additional fermentables so I could fill 20 liters
with out a loss in ABV. 20 liters does not last a month in
my house.

My friends thought one and two liters bottles were tacky.
Personally I can not imagine free beer as tacky. So they
brought a few cases of flip-top bottles and paid for a CP
bottle filler. I am working on them for aa bottle tree.
But as soon as I kegged my second batch, I knew bottling
was more effort than it was worth.

Dick

Date: 21 Nov 2006 07:57:36
From: kevinbeall
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

"Dick Adams" <rdadams@smart.net > wrote in message
news:12m4urk14lcla65@corp.supernews.com...
> Although I never wanted to bottle, I started with 1 liter
> soda bottles. I raised my primary volume above 5 gallons
> and added additional fermentables so I could fill 20 liters
> with out a loss in ABV. 20 liters does not last a month in
> my house.
>
> My friends thought one and two liters bottles were tacky.
> Personally I can not imagine free beer as tacky. So they
> brought a few cases of flip-top bottles and paid for a CP
> bottle filler. I am working on them for aa bottle tree.
> But as soon as I kegged my second batch, I knew bottling
> was more effort than it was worth.
>
> Dick

I actually bottle AND keg. Like some of the other replies have stated, I
too, am a low volume brewer/drinker. I bought 4 (not all at once) of the
2.5 gallon kegs. Now, I can force carbonate one or two, while letting a
couple of others prime and ferment a while longer in the keg. Works well
for me. I also bottle a fair number of my home brews (mostly my specialty
brews or beers that have to age significantly longer). I've become much
more patient, now that I have also started making wine for my wife...

kev

Date: 21 Nov 2006 14:48:14
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

kevinbeall <kevinbeallnospam@bellsouth.net > wrote:
>I actually bottle AND keg.
...
>I also bottle a fair number of my home brews (mostly my specialty
>brews or beers that have to age significantly longer).

Same here. Kegging is a bit faster, but some batches
just cry out for bottling-- barleywine, strong Belgians,
mead.

P.S. Dick, I did finally get your gift. Thanks! I admit to
being afraid to actually open it. ;-)
--
Joel Plutchak

"Things just fall apart." - Now They'll Sleep (Belly)

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:39:30
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Joel <plutchak AT see.headers > wrote:

> P.S. Dick, I did finally get your gift. Thanks! I admit to
> being afraid to actually open it. ;-)

You are smarter than your mother-in-law says! :)

Use it very sparingly so you great taste without the deadly heat!

For others, the gift was ground habenero pepper. It is very,
very, very HOT! Actually it was ground Red Savina habenero
pepper so it's even hotter than that!

I haven't planted since 2003 due to physical problems, but what
appeared to be a 10 year supply will just about make 4 years.
So new habenero crop in 2007. I may plant some raspberry bushes
because deer and rabbits will not come near the habeneros. I'd
plant garlic too, but garlic powder in bulk costs less than
growing it yourself.

Dick - See www.redsavina.com

Date: 20 Nov 2006 19:31:38
From: Melville
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

I went to a kegging system about six months ago and I WILL NEVER GO
BACK TO BOTTLING! NEVER! I made a three-tap kegerator out of a chest
freezer and never looked back. My bottles are just gaining dust. I
may keep them around to fill from the tap from time to time, but never
again will I prime and bottle a whole batch.

Do it! You will not be disappointed in the decision.

M

Date: 21 Nov 2006 02:06:14
From: Boll Weevil Brewery
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

"Bob the Brewer" <bob.devivo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164053631.092272.24750@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
> kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
> regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
> kits for kegging.

Do it! Do it!!

>
> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
> kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?

Carrying it to other people is good...but with it on tap, people will come
to you, so no possibilities of your getting a DUI or anything like that. :)
The only problem is getting rid of your visitors, lol.

>
> Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
> tap.

You get more taps. I have 5 right now, but would love to have 10 or 15. So
many beers, so little time.

>
> It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
> beer lines and other hard to clean equipment, and dealing with
> dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
> this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
> headaches.

With bottling, you clean, sanitize with each batch. over and over. With
kegging, you clean only when needed (or at least I do it that way) and most
of the time, just fill a keg w/cleaner, pump it through w/CO2, fill the keg
w/sanitizer, pump it through...and you're done. I usually try to do this
when I'm getting ready to take something out of secondary, so I'm cleaning
stuff (the carboy(s), hoses, whatever) anyway.

>
> Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
> bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
> hadn't?

Only recently have I wanted to bottle, but it's so that I can save back a
few 6 packs to sample over time to see how the flavor develops, and also I'd
like to enter in some of my brews in competitions just to get the
feedback...though some ribbons would be nice hanging on the kegerator I'm
sure. :-)

>
> As I've mentioned in some of my other recent posts, brewing time is
> very limited, so I would only want to add another element if it would
> reduce the time commitment, not increase it.
>
> Thanks in advance for your opinions.

I would say that kegging overall dramatically reduces the time, and believe
me, I'm lazy so I'm always looking for the quickest route to the end. I've
been doing extract/steeping grains for almost 4 years now and keep promising
myself I'll go all grain!

As other posters said, I'd get the keg setup, as you can always bottle part
or all of a batch when you want, and keg when you want, but without a
kegging system, you can never keg your brews. Plus...you'd be able to take 5
gallons to a party and not have to worry about breaking anything.

Good luck!

Ricky
----------------------------------------------
Add your homebrew site!
http://www.brew100.com

Date: 21 Nov 2006 01:40:01
From: stencil
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

On 20 Nov 2006 12:13:51 -0800, "Bob the Brewer" <bob.devivo@gmail.com >
wrote:

>[ ...] I'm worried that I might not
>like it.
It enables you to have draft beer - just a short one, or as many as
you wish. What's not to like?
>
>Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
>bottling?

This is not like getting a tattoo, or a sex change. You can have a
draft while you're bottling. You can pop a bottle while you're force
carbonating. Keep your options open. Don't sell the capper.

stencil sends

Date: 20 Nov 2006 17:05:48
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Date: 20 Nov 2006 21:57:13
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

bob.devivo@gmail.com wrote:

> I like being able to give beer away to people

This is a VERY SERIOUS character flaw. Other "people"
is no place for your homebrew.

Bart

--
The man without a .sig

Date: 20 Nov 2006 13:07:45
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Bob the Brewer wrote:
> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
> kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?

Yes, or a 2l bottle, or a gallon juice jug or whatever.

> Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on

If you are low-volume brewer and drinker, that is definitely a concern.
I'm new to kegging and have already expanded to being able to serve 4
kegs. But I'm a low volume brewer and drinker, so they go very slow.
And if it's a beer you don't love, it goes even slower. The ideal in
this situation is to get a beer gun or a counter pressure bottle filler
and bottle whatever you're not going to use in the near future. But
it'd be much simpler to just bottle to begin with on some beers.

The biggest benefit is with your "house beer" that you make/consume
most. That's the one I'd keg. On the other end of the spectrum, you
have the super-high-gravity and high alcohol beers that won't bottle
carbonate because the yeast have had it. If you have a keg setup and
CPBF/BeerGun, you can carbonate it to the desired level and then bottle
it.

The low buck version of a Beer Gun is just a tube on the end of your
tap (see more on that elsewhere) but you get some O2 in there as well,
so it's not good for longer term storage, I hear.

> It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
> beer lines and other hard to clean equipment,

The cleaning is reduced, but it is still there. Personally, I was a
little disappointed that it wasn't quite as easy as advertised. But it
is better than the cleaning involved with just bottling. Problem is,
because of the way I brew/drink/distribute, I'm still going to have to
bottle (maybe 25 to 50% of what I brew).

> dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
> this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
> headaches.

Yes, but it appeals to the tinkerer in homebrewers, and it isn't hard
at all once you get the hang of it. There are some good resources out
there for info on it, and once you wrap your head around it, it's
pretty simple. I have a nifty spreadsheet if you want it (as does most
the people who keg)

> Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
> bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
> hadn't?

I'd of probably been better just sticking with bottling for now, but
OTOH, I'm not hating it and do like the appeal of kegging. Just like
with anything in homebrewing, there are a lot of little issues to work
out - the fridge, the taps, the lines, the location, the tweaking...

In the end, when you say "I need to bottle", you feel a lot more dread
than a kegger will experience. Once the kegs are to a usable state,
cleaning isn't all that hard, and is generally done when it's done
being used, not just before you bottle. I have a keg cleaned and
sanitized ready for whatever I may brew next, and all I'd need to do is
purge it and fill it.

I also will be able to serve the beer quicker. I force carbonate and
try it after a day just to get a good idea of how it tastes. I don't
like the way force carbonated beer tastes, but it's better than no
carbonation, and you can serve beer 24 hours from the time it was in
secondary (or in an hour if it's already at serving temperature). But
the carbonation won't be perfect - I still like to wait a week before
drinking it to let everything balance out.

So overall, I give it a thumbs up, but I could have waited longer and
been none the worse for it (though I wouldn't have known that bit of
info if I had waited).

--Jeff

Date: 20 Nov 2006 14:59:15
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Bob the Brewer wrote:
> I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
> kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
> regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
> kits for kegging.
>
> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
> kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?

You can just fill bottles, growlers, jugs or swing-tops directly from
the tap. The simple way is to jam a length of 3/8 ID tubing over the
picnic faucet and fill-er up.

You can also use a CP filler or Beer Gun, which is better for longer
term storage. I frequently fill a few bottles for long term storage from
my kegs. I fill a few big swing tops for club meetings or parties all
the time.

>
> Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
> tap.

You can always get another keg -- I keep anywhere from 2 to 7 beers on
tap. Even a small chest freezer of fridge should be able to store at
least at least two cornies -- and of course you can bottle from your
cornies if you want to save a few for "archiving". Again, I do this
regularly.

>
> It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
> beer lines and other hard to clean equipment, and dealing with
> dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
> this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
> headaches.

Foaming issues are minor and easily dealt with. This is a newbie problem
that when fixed once is fixed permanently. There is nothing to
cleaning beer lines. For a typical picnic setup we're talking 5 or 6
feet of vinyl tubing which can be cleaned with a soak in oxclean or
simply replaced altogether. Both the keg QDs and picnic faucets can be
easily disassembled and dropped into a bucket full of cleanser to clean
via soaking. Cleaning should be almost a non-issue unless you have a
fairly complicated tower setup.

>
> Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
> bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
> hadn't?

I'll be pretty shocked if you get a "yes" answer to this. The only
downside is if you quit drinking or get out of homebrewing altogether --
in which case all of your stuff would become useless and you'd lose part
of your investment in a draft system.

>
> As I've mentioned in some of my other recent posts, brewing time is
> very limited, so I would only want to add another element if it would
> reduce the time commitment, not increase it.

It will *vastly* reduce your time commitment.

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

Date: 20 Nov 2006 17:42:21
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> Bob the Brewer wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
>> kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
>> regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
>> kits for kegging.
>>
>> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
>> kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
>> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
>> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
>> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?
>
>
> You can just fill bottles, growlers, jugs or swing-tops directly from
> the tap. The simple way is to jam a length of 3/8 ID tubing over the
> picnic faucet and fill-er up.
>
> You can also use a CP filler or Beer Gun, which is better for longer
> term storage. I frequently fill a few bottles for long term storage from
> my kegs. I fill a few big swing tops for club meetings or parties all
> the time.

I think I'm going to get a Beer Gun.. I'd like to bottle some for
people and not have to worry about getting a flip-top back.

--
Dan

Date: 20 Nov 2006 12:36:29
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Bob the Brewer wrote:
> I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
> tap.
>
My solution to that "problem" (more than one kind of beer) is twofold:
I got a second corny, and I sometime bottle an unusual batch that I
don't want to go through too fast. For instance, I have a cherry stout
I bottled because last year it took a couple of months for the flavor
to mellow out. (next time I'll use less cherries)

Date: 21 Nov 2006 16:25:36
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

On 20 Nov 2006 12:13:51 -0800, <bob.devivo@gmail.com > wrote:
> I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
> kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
> regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
> kits for kegging.
>
> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
> kegging their beer prefer it.

IMO, it's a lot less work.

> However, I'm worried that I might not
> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?

Yes, I use growlers for that. However, there are ways to fill regular
bottles from your kegs if you really want to.

> Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
> tap.

It's pretty easy to have multiple kegs on tap at the same time. You'll need
several kegs, obviously, but you can run them all from the same CO2 tank
and just basically use splitters (with check valves) for the gas lines. You'd
also need a couple taps, but the plastic picnic taps are pretty cheap.

> It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
> beer lines and other hard to clean equipment

Much less than cleaning two cases of bottles though.

> and dealing with
> dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
> this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
> headaches.

Getting your system setup to give a good pour is a bit of a learning curve.
However, once you figure it out it's pretty much just "set and forget".

> Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
> bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
> hadn't?

I'm definitely glad I decided to start kegging, should have done it much
sooner. I haven't bottled a batch of beer in a really long time (years).

> As I've mentioned in some of my other recent posts, brewing time is
> very limited, so I would only want to add another element if it would
> reduce the time commitment, not increase it.

IMO, kegging definitely reduces the amount of work and time versus bottling.

John.

Date: 21 Nov 2006 06:45:44
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

Bob the Brewer wrote:
> I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
> kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
> regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
> kits for kegging.
>
> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
> kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?
>
> Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
> tap.
>
> It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
> beer lines and other hard to clean equipment, and dealing with
> dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
> this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
> headaches.
>
> Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
> bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
> hadn't?
>
> As I've mentioned in some of my other recent posts, brewing time is
> very limited, so I would only want to add another element if it would
> reduce the time commitment, not increase it.
>
> Thanks in advance for your opinions.
>

I started bottling right off. Then put my second batch a keg. That was
years ago. It is just recently that I have started bottling some brews
again.

I tend to bottle the brews that I am not as fond of as others, but
people like my father and brother in law are quite fond of.

It is a lot easier to take six bottles to dad's house then the keg. I
have also resigned myself to only buy beers in 22oz bottles at the
specialty beer shop. 30 22's seem a lot faster to fill, and easier to
store.

I know brew with a friend who bottles exclusively. That may have
something to do with me bottling some of mine again too. I help him
bottle all of his.

The IPAs, Ambers, Porters, and Stouts get kegged and put on tap in the
garage.

A beergun is probably in my future, but it doesn't even make the top 5
list of kit I want.

Ryan

Date: 21 Nov 2006 09:03:06
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

I turned up diabetic so I decided that I needed better portion control. I
gave up draft beer at home - usually. Not only did I start bottling again,
but I went to 6 oz bottles. I built a stand to hold a modified Phil's
Philler and can bottle 96 little bottles pretty quickly.

Having said all that, I confess to having two half barrels of homebrew left
over from a Halloween party at home . . . . I really need to get them out of
the house.

Dan

"Bob the Brewer" <bob.devivo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164053631.092272.24750@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm thinking about asking the wife for the beginnings of a draft
> kegging system for Christmas. Maybe a single corny, a CO2 tank and a
> regulator. I think I've seen some online shops that sell starter
> kits for kegging.
>
> It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
> kegging their beer prefer it. However, I'm worried that I might not
> like it. I like being able to give beer away to people and also to be
> able to grab a six pack and take it with me somewhere. Do you use
> growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?
>
> Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.
> It's nice to have the variety of bottles. I imagine it would take
> me quite a while to drink 5 gallons of oatmeal stout I might have on
> tap.
>
> It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
> beer lines and other hard to clean equipment, and dealing with
> dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not. From reading
> this NG, it seems like kegging might bring with it its own set of
> headaches.
>
> Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
> bottling? Or has anyone invested in a draft system, and wished they
> hadn't?
>
> As I've mentioned in some of my other recent posts, brewing time is
> very limited, so I would only want to add another element if it would
> reduce the time commitment, not increase it.
>
> Thanks in advance for your opinions.
>

Date: 23 Nov 2006 05:01:38
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: Anyone gone back to bottling?

In article <1164053631.092272.24750@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
Bob the Brewer <bob.devivo@gmail.com > wrote:
>It seems from most of the posts I read that most people who switch to
>kegging their beer prefer it.

Absolutely. It's much less work to fill one keg than to fill 2+ cases of
bottles.

>However, I'm worried that I might not like it. I like being able to give
>beer away to people and also to be able to grab a six pack and take it with
>me somewhere. Do you use growlers like a brew pub would for this purpose?

Growlers are usually too large for my purposes, but I could use them. I
normally use Grolsch bottles if I want beer to go.

>Also I worry about having only one beer "on tap" at any given time.

With two or more taps, that isn't a problem. :-)

>It also seems like there's quite a bit of mucking about with cleaning
>beer lines and other hard to clean equipment,

Keep a 3-gallon keg on hand for cleaning. When you empty a keg, fill the
3-gallon keg with a gallon each of PBW or OxiClean solution, hot water, and
iodophor solution. Run each through the line and tap to clean, rinse, and
sanitize. I'd recommend opening/closing the tap for a bit as each solution
goes through to get it distributed throughout.

>and dealing with dispensing pressure and foaming problems and what-not.

Six feet of 3/16" beer line (the proper thick-wall stuff from a homebrew
supplier, not the thin tubing from Home Depot or whatever) will dispense at
10 psi at a temperature in the mid-to-upper 30s without foaming all over the
place.

>Has anyone tried kegging and then decided to give it up and go back to
>bottling?

Someone who does that needs to go back on his meds. :-)

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