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Main
Date: 04 Dec 2006 20:12:47
From: mike
Subject: Aging Beer
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Hey all,
I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally starting
to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to do with
the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a recipe
I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I age, I've
left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no longer than
2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
-Mike
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 16:17:26
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:12:47 -0500, <bhairava83@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hey all,
> I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally starting
> to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to do with
> the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
If you were using the generic packets that came in a kit, then that could
have been an issue. That yeast tends to be of unknown age/quality. However,
name brand packets of dry yeast sold seperately should be every bit as
high quality as liquid yeast. I don't think it would be the source of
any problems.
> Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a recipe
> I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I age, I've
> left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no longer than
> 2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
>
> Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
> there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
> months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
Aging is always optional. It really comes down to personal preference in
addition to style of the beer. There are styles that generally benefit
from extended aging, but it's really up to you. Some people may prefer
the beer younger. However, IMO, it's truly impressive what aging does
to beer.
As far as when to age, you can do it in either the secondary or the keg. One
nice thing about doing it in the secondary is that there's less temptation to
just say "the heck with it" and start drinking the beer early. On the other
hand it ties up one of your fermenters for a long time, so aging in the
keg is often more convenient. I've done it both ways, the beer doesn't
really care which one you do. It's more about whatever is easiest for
you.
If you do it in the keg, then you want to carbonate the beer like you
normally do, and then age. The carbonation pressure in the keg is what
keeps the lid sealed (assuming we're talking about corny kegs). I would
not recommend aging a beer in an unpressurized corny keg.
John.
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 13:04:04
From: mike
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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Yea, the yeast is Nottingham brand. I don't know if that is good or
not, but I switched to WhiteLabs, and I ordered up a flask, and some
wyeasts so I can pitch in some larger cultures.
Do you guys age all types of beer, or is it specfic to certain styles?
I know Belgium's need aging, and some specialty beers, but yea I don't
know. Any guides? Or does it all just boil down to experimenting?
-Mike
On 2006-12-05 11:17:26 -0500, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > said:
> On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:12:47 -0500, <bhairava83@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally starting
>> to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to do with
>> the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
>
> If you were using the generic packets that came in a kit, then that could
> have been an issue. That yeast tends to be of unknown age/quality. However,
> name brand packets of dry yeast sold seperately should be every bit as
> high quality as liquid yeast. I don't think it would be the source of
> any problems.
>
>> Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a recipe
>> I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I age, I've
>> left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no longer than
>> 2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
>>
>> Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
>> there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
>> months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
>
> Aging is always optional. It really comes down to personal preference in
> addition to style of the beer. There are styles that generally benefit
> from extended aging, but it's really up to you. Some people may prefer
> the beer younger. However, IMO, it's truly impressive what aging does
> to beer.
>
> As far as when to age, you can do it in either the secondary or the
> keg. One nice thing about doing it in the secondary is that there's
> less temptation to
> just say "the heck with it" and start drinking the beer early. On the other
> hand it ties up one of your fermenters for a long time, so aging in the
> keg is often more convenient. I've done it both ways, the beer doesn't
> really care which one you do. It's more about whatever is easiest for
> you.
> If you do it in the keg, then you want to carbonate the beer like you
> normally do, and then age. The carbonation pressure in the keg is what
> keeps the lid sealed (assuming we're talking about corny kegs). I would
> not recommend aging a beer in an unpressurized corny keg.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 18:16:24
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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mike <bhairava83@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Yea, the yeast is Nottingham brand. I don't know if that is good or
> not, but I switched to WhiteLabs, and I ordered up a flask, and some
> wyeasts so I can pitch in some larger cultures.
>
> Do you guys age all types of beer, or is it specfic to certain styles?
> I know Belgium's need aging, and some specialty beers, but yea I don't
> know. Any guides? Or does it all just boil down to experimenting?
> -Mike
>
The bigger the beer, the more it will profit from aging, IMO. My mild
and hefe-weizen are delicious in 2 weeks and actually decline a bit
after 2 months. My IPA tastes *much* better at 6 months than it does
at 2 months, and it's nearly undrinkable at 2 weeks. That's just my
experience. My mid-range ales (1.050-ish) are always at their best
around the 2 month mark (in the bottle, excluding any lagering).
I haven't made any "huge" beers yet, though I'm sure they all need to
be aged.
>
> On 2006-12-05 11:17:26 -0500, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> said:
>
>> On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:12:47 -0500, <bhairava83@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally starting
>>> to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to do with
>>> the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
>>
>> If you were using the generic packets that came in a kit, then that could
>> have been an issue. That yeast tends to be of unknown age/quality. However,
>> name brand packets of dry yeast sold seperately should be every bit as
>> high quality as liquid yeast. I don't think it would be the source of
>> any problems.
>>
>>> Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a recipe
>>> I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I age, I've
>>> left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no longer than
>>> 2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
>>>
>>> Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
>>> there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
>>> months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
>>
>> Aging is always optional. It really comes down to personal preference in
>> addition to style of the beer. There are styles that generally benefit
>> from extended aging, but it's really up to you. Some people may prefer
>> the beer younger. However, IMO, it's truly impressive what aging does
>> to beer.
>>
>> As far as when to age, you can do it in either the secondary or the
>> keg. One nice thing about doing it in the secondary is that there's
>> less temptation to
>> just say "the heck with it" and start drinking the beer early. On the other
>> hand it ties up one of your fermenters for a long time, so aging in the
>> keg is often more convenient. I've done it both ways, the beer doesn't
>> really care which one you do. It's more about whatever is easiest for
>> you.
>> If you do it in the keg, then you want to carbonate the beer like you
>> normally do, and then age. The carbonation pressure in the keg is what
>> keeps the lid sealed (assuming we're talking about corny kegs). I would
>> not recommend aging a beer in an unpressurized corny keg.
>>
>>
>> John.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 11:29:48
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> I haven't made any "huge" beers yet, though I'm sure they all need to
> be aged.
Not necessarily...
--------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 11:29:17
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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mike wrote:
>
> Yea, the yeast is Nottingham brand. I don't know if that is good or
> not, but I switched to WhiteLabs, and I ordered up a flask, and some
> wyeasts so I can pitch in some larger cultures.
>
> Do you guys age all types of beer, or is it specfic to certain styles?
> I know Belgium's need aging, and some specialty beers, but yea I don't
> know. Any guides? Or does it all just boil down to experimenting?
The idea that all beers need aging, and thge nigger the beer the more
the aging, just isn't universally true. While some do benefit from
aging, many do not. It's not common for Belgian brewers, for instance,
to age the beer more than a few weeks, despite high OGs. Now, that
doesn't account for your own tastes, of course...feel free to age YOUR
beers whatever length seems good to you. But I seldom age tripels, for
instance, more than 2-3 weeks.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 19:06:46
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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"Denny Conn" <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote in message
news:4575C88D.2D11DF2D@ci.eugene.or.us...
>
> The idea that all beers need aging, and thge nigger the beer the more
> the aging, just isn't universally true. While some do benefit from
> aging, many do not. It's not common for Belgian brewers, for instance,
> to age the beer more than a few weeks, despite high OGs. Now, that
> doesn't account for your own tastes, of course...feel free to age YOUR
> beers whatever length seems good to you. But I seldom age tripels, for
> instance, more than 2-3 weeks.
I agree. My dubbel was much much better after just a few days in the bottle
than it is now after ~6 months. Best to drink that stuff fresh while it's
still cloudy, for whatever reason. Must have something to do with that
crazy Belgian yeast.
--
Dave
"Fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you're drinking." -- Brad Paisley
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 19:03:56
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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"Denny Conn" <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote in message
news:4575C88D.2D11DF2D@ci.eugene.or.us...
>
> The idea that all beers need aging, and thge nigger the beer the more
This whole Kramer thing is just getting way out of hand... ;)
--
Dave
"Fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you're drinking." -- Brad Paisley
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 19:42:01
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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Denny Conn <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> mike wrote:
>>
>> Yea, the yeast is Nottingham brand. I don't know if that is good or
>> not, but I switched to WhiteLabs, and I ordered up a flask, and some
>> wyeasts so I can pitch in some larger cultures.
>>
>> Do you guys age all types of beer, or is it specfic to certain styles?
>> I know Belgium's need aging, and some specialty beers, but yea I don't
>> know. Any guides? Or does it all just boil down to experimenting?
>
> The idea that all beers need aging, and thge bigger the beer the more
> the aging, just isn't universally true. While some do benefit from
> aging, many do not. It's not common for Belgian brewers, for instance,
> to age the beer more than a few weeks, despite high OGs. Now, that
> doesn't account for your own tastes, of course...feel free to age YOUR
> beers whatever length seems good to you. But I seldom age tripels, for
> instance, more than 2-3 weeks.
>
> ------------>Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
Don't Belgian beers enjoy very warm fermentation though? Is that why
they condition so quickly?
Note - that's an honest question - I'm not very well-versed on the
style but interested in trying it.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 06 Dec 2006 09:40:33
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
>
> Don't Belgian beers enjoy very warm fermentation though? Is that why
> they condition so quickly?
Not in a lot of cases...maybe even the majority. For instance,
Westmalle starts at 64F and lets the temp rise to 68F through
fermentation. The idea that ALL Belgian beers are fermented warm is
another of those mistaken ideas.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 18:25:56
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:04:04 -0500, <bhairava83@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Yea, the yeast is Nottingham brand. I don't know if that is good or
> not, but I switched to WhiteLabs, and I ordered up a flask, and some
> wyeasts so I can pitch in some larger cultures.
Nottingham is good stuff. Unless you are making starters with the liquid
yeast, then a dry packet of Nottingham will actually have a larger cell
count than the liquid tubes/packs. IOW, liquid yeast is usually a smaller
culture than dry.
> Do you guys age all types of beer, or is it specfic to certain styles?
> I know Belgium's need aging, and some specialty beers, but yea I don't
> know. Any guides? Or does it all just boil down to experimenting?
A lot of it is just your own preference. In general though, the bigger
the beer (higher OG, more alcohol, more hops, etc), the more it will
benefit from extended aging. Something like a mild ale, for example,
can usually be enjoyed very young. Where as something like a barleywine
may benefit from 6 months to a year (or more) of aging. There are no
rules set in stone though. Two people may prefer the same beer at
two completely different levels of aging.
John.
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 08:34:08
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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mike wrote:
> Hey all,
> I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally
> starting to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to
> do with the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
>
> Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a
> recipe I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I
> age, I've left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no
> longer than 2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
>
> Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
> there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
> months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
In this case you'd age in the serving container (bottle or keg).
Westvleteren, huh? You aim high, I'll say that much...
You'll definitely have to age any quadrupel for a while -- 7 months
actually seems a bit short to me for this one.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 08:55:49
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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mike wrote:
> Hey all,
> I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally
> starting to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to
> do with the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
>
> Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a
> recipe I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I
> age, I've left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no
> longer than 2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
>
> Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
> there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
> months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
I don't think the yeast was the problem.. probably just not aging long
enough. I try not to tap a keg for at least 2 weeks, but it still tastes
too young. If I wait longer, the beer tastes better. If it says to wait
7 months, try. I try to stack up a bunch of batches so they can age while
I'm drinking the oldest.. But its a good idea to sample over time to better
understand how the beer ages.
--
Dan
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 18:48:07
From: JoeyB
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
|
I had a hefewiezen that blew the air lock off. Tasting at three weeks,
I thought I had an infection due to the time the airlock was off the
carboy. I was going to dump the keg but I was lazy... A month later I
tasted it again and it was great!
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 13:26:31
From:
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
|
John Bleichert wrote:
>
> Don't Belgian beers enjoy very warm fermentation though? Is that why
> they condition so quickly?
The reason that belgiums "condition" quickly is that the things that
would be defects in some other styles that you would age beer to get
rid of are actually what you want in a belgium. They are sort of the
defining characteristics of the styles. A slight bit of diacetyl for
some, a modicum of esthers in most, and phenols in all of them. The
lovely phenols. Why they work in the belgium styles I'll never
understand, but they do. In almost anything else you would consider
the batch a flop with the phenols, but you aim for them in a nice
dubbel or golden strong ale.
>
> Note - that's an honest question - I'm not very well-versed on the
> style but interested in trying it.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
Bryan
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 18:54:10
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
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mike <bhairava83@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I've been brewing now for 5 months, and my beers are finally starting
> to taste good, and I mean goooood. I think it has something to do with
> the fact that in past month I stopped using dry yeasts.
>
> Any way, i want to make a Westvleteren ABT 12 Clone based on a recipe
> I found online, but it says to age it 7 months. Now when do I age, I've
> left beer clear in the secondary carboy before, but for no longer than
> 2 weeks, this recipe says 7 months.
>
> Should I age in a carboy? Should I fill in a keg and let it age in
> there, and if so, do I prime? I don't know I could sit on a beer for 7
> months. I'm seriously thinking about burying it. Any thoughts? Thanks,
Age in a keg.
You and I have the same problem. A good beer is like a good
woman we need it early and often. It is only when availability
is greater thn consumption that we can wait. So make more beer
that you can drink while you are waiting the good stuff.
Dick
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 10:46:48
From: Matt
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
|
If one were to use a plate filter, would the beer age faster?
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 13:19:31
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
|
Matt wrote:
> If one were to use a plate filter, would the beer age faster?
>
Not really. You can reduce the amount of time you'd ordinarily require
to drop yeast and haze, but you won't really get the flavor benefits.
I used to filter with a plate filter at 3 microns, moved up to 7
microns, then finally dropped the practice altogether.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
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Date: 05 Dec 2006 18:56:49
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
|
On 5 Dec 2006 10:46:48 -0800, <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote:
> If one were to use a plate filter, would the beer age faster?
Probably not. Definitely not if you're stripping out yeast during
filtration (live yeast are responsible for some of the effects of aging).
The beer may clarify more quickly, but that's not the same thing as aging.
IMO, filtering homebrew probably isn't very common. Are you using one
now, or is there a reason you think you need to get one?
John.
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Date: 06 Dec 2006 11:38:32
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Aging Beer
|
> Age in a keg.
>
> You and I have the same problem. A good beer is like a good
> woman we need it early and often. It is only when availability
> is greater thn consumption that we can wait. So make more beer
> that you can drink while you are waiting the good stuff.
>
> Dick
This man has nailed it.
What I will do is brew 10 gallons of mild ale or ordinary bitter that I
can quaff in between making my lagers, IPAs & Belgians. These small
session beers can be brewed like a 5 gallon batches and then topped up
with water before pitching the yeast without compromising the quality.
Certainly what I used to do is brew mostly moderate (1.050) gravity
pale ales and drink them 3 or 4 weeks after brewing and not be
impressed until the last few pints.
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