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Date: 10 Jun 2006 14:28:51
From: Dick Adams
Subject: A Tale of Two Recipes
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I found two recipes for an Arrogant Bastard Clone. They are at:
All-Grain Recipe: http://tinyurl.com/zg7to
Extract Recipe: http://tinyurl.com/934k3
All-Grain Extract
Ingredients Amount Ingredients Amount
---------------------------- ----------------------------
American Wheat 4.0 lbs Wheat DME 4.0 lbs
American Munich 4.0 lbs Amber DME 4.0 lbs
American 2-Row 4.0 lbs
Special-B 8.0 oz. *Special-B 8.0 oz.
Biscuit 8.0 oz. *Biscuit 8.0 oz.
Aromatic 8.0 oz. *Aromatic 8.0 oz.
*CaraMunich 8.0 oz.
Magnum (60 min) 1.0 oz. Magnum (60 min) 1.0 oz.
Columbus (50 min) 0.5 oz. Columbus (50 min) 0.5 oz.
Centennial (30 min) 0.5 oz. Centennial (30 min) 0.5 oz.
Irish Moss (15 min) 1 packet Irish Moss (15 Min) 1 packet
Centennial (Dry) 1.0 oz. Centennial (Dry) 1.0 oz.
Wyeast #1056 1 packet Wyeast #1056 1 packet
Corn Sugar 6.0 oz. Corn Sugar 6.0 oz.
* grains to be steeped.
First problem: According to Palmer's Internet version, Special-B
may be steeped and Biscuit should not be steeped. Aromatic and
Caramunich are not mentioned. Reads more like a mini-mash to me!
When I ran the All-Grain recipe through Beer Tools, the ABV and
Color were in style, but the IBU (30.00-60.00) was 103.5!
When I ran the Extract recipe through Beer Tools, the ABV and
Color were in style, but the IBU (30.00-60.00) was 99.0!
So there is a hopping problem. Magnum hops and the dry hops
were decreased to 0.5 oz and the hop schedule to 60, 45, and 5.
But the All-Grain was 6.5% and the Extract was 8.0% That was
corrected by adding a pound each of 2-row, Wheat, and Munich.
Now they are identical.
What it looks like is someone copied in a recipe for an Extract
brew making typos on the hop schedule and then did an All-Grain
conversion based on rules of thumb. BUT the author didn't check
his work before publishing it. Damn it!
Here the versions with my corrections:
All-Grain Extract
Ingredients Amount Ingredients Amount
---------------------------- ----------------------------
American Wheat 5.0 lbs Wheat DME 4.0 lbs
American Munich 5.0 lbs Amber DME 4.0 lbs
American 2-Row 5.0 lbs
Special-B 8.0 oz. *Special-B 8.0 oz.
Biscuit 8.0 oz. *Biscuit 8.0 oz.
Aromatic 8.0 oz. *Aromatic 8.0 oz.
Aromatic 8.0 oz. *Aromatic 8.0 oz.
*CaraMunich 8.0 oz.
Magnum (60 min) 0.5 oz. Magnum (60 min) 0.5 oz.
Columbus (45 min) 0.5 oz. Columbus (45 min) 0.5 oz.
Irish Moss (15 min) 1 packet Irish Moss (15 Min) 1 packet
Centennial (5 min) 0.5 oz. Centennial (5 min) 0.5 oz.
Centennial (Dry) 0.5 oz. Centennial (Dry) 0.5 oz.
Wyeast #1056 1 packet Wyeast #1056 1 packet
Corn Sugar 6.0 oz. Corn Sugar 6.0 oz.
* grains to be steeped.
O.G. 1.079 O.G. 1.079
F.G. 1.018 F.G. 1.019
Color (SRM) 20.52 Color (SRM) 20.54
Bitterness (IBU) 56.6 Bitterness (IBU) 56.5
ABV 8.0% ABV 8.0%
I am uncertain as to the steeping and am posting this with the
hope of constructive criticism. Afterall Arrogant Bastard Ale
is the 'Ultimate Beer' for us 'Condescending Brew Guys'!
Dick
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 13:49:55
From: JS
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:28:51 -0000, rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
wrote:
>I found two recipes for an Arrogant Bastard Clone. They are at:
What style guidelines, if any, would this brew fall under?
--
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 18:20:42
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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JS <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote:
> rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams) wrote:
>> I found two recipes for an Arrogant Bastard Clone. They are at:
> What style guidelines, if any, would this brew fall under?
Thank you for asking such an obvious question! I classified it
as an Old Ale (19A). Your question caused me to check so I could
give you a URL. I was wrong. Another person who didn't have his
facts straight, but at least I posted it for constructive criticism
before printing it off and handing it out.
To my surprise, it is an Imperial IPA (14C). The guidelines call for:
O.C. ..... 1.075 - 1.090+
F.G. ..... 1.012 - 1.020
SRM ...... 8 - 15
IBU ...... 60 - 100+
ABV ...... 7.5 - 10+%
So the Hop Schedule goes back to what it originally was.
The All-Grain grain bill chages I made stay in the recipe.
Now the color is too dark as in 20.5 versus 15.
And I need an answer on the steeping!
Thank you again for such an obvious question. And the URL is
http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category14.html
Dick
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Date: 10 Jun 2006 16:57:52
From: JS
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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>
>Now the color is too dark as in 20.5 versus 15.
>
So, looking the recipe over, what would you suggest as to color
adjustment? I thought perhaps substituting some Pale Malt for equal
portion of Munich.
--
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 12:34:19
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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JS <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote:
> Dick Adams <rdadams@smart.net) wrote:
>> Now the color is too dark as in 20.5 versus 15.
> So, looking the recipe over, what would you suggest as to
> color adjustment? I thought perhaps substituting some Pale
> Malt for equal portion of Munich.
5 lbs of Pale Malt for 5lbs of Munich and it's still SRM high.
Maybe it would be easier to get the BJCP to change the guidelines
to 9-25 SRM. LoL
Maybe the questions to ask are:
1. Is Stone's Arrogant Bastard within guidelines?
2. How many people can tell the difference between 15 SRM and 20 SRM?
Dick
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 16:37:14
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:34:19 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> Maybe the questions to ask are:
> 1. Is Stone's Arrogant Bastard within guidelines?
BJCP guidelines mean absolutely nothing to most commercial breweries.
> 2. How many people can tell the difference between 15 SRM and 20 SRM?
Probably very few.
John.
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Date: 18 Jun 2006 21:36:34
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrne8r64a.5r6.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:34:19 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net> wrote:
>> Maybe the questions to ask are:
>> 1. Is Stone's Arrogant Bastard within guidelines?
>
> BJCP guidelines mean absolutely nothing to most commercial breweries.
>
>> 2. How many people can tell the difference between 15 SRM and 20 SRM?
>
> Probably very few.
Au contraire, 15 SRM is a deep red-copper, while 20 SRM is a light brown.
Sez so in my StrangeBrew software (version 1.8).
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 14:54:38
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:36:34 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com > wrote:
>>> 2. How many people can tell the difference between 15 SRM and 20 SRM?
>>
>> Probably very few.
>
> Au contraire, 15 SRM is a deep red-copper, while 20 SRM is a light brown.
> Sez so in my StrangeBrew software (version 1.8).
If I put an unknown beer in front of the average beer drinker (not a BJCP
judge), do you think they can tell me what the SRM is to within that
accuracy? I doubt it.
John.
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Date: 19 Jun 2006 17:41:58
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrne9deob.rqt.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:36:34 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com>
> wrote:
>>>> 2. How many people can tell the difference between 15 SRM and 20 SRM?
>>>
>>> Probably very few.
>>
>> Au contraire, 15 SRM is a deep red-copper, while 20 SRM is a light brown.
>> Sez so in my StrangeBrew software (version 1.8).
>
> If I put an unknown beer in front of the average beer drinker (not a BJCP
> judge), do you think they can tell me what the SRM is to within that
> accuracy? I doubt it.
They'd say, "Ooh, I don't like dark beer." I see what you mean.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 09:23:48
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Recipes
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"Dick Adams" <rdadams@smart.net > wrote in message
>
> Here the versions with my corrections:
>
> All-Grain Extract
> Ingredients Amount Ingredients Amount
> ---------------------------- ----------------------------
> American Wheat 5.0 lbs Wheat DME 4.0 lbs
> American Munich 5.0 lbs Amber DME 4.0 lbs
> American 2-Row 5.0 lbs
>
> Special-B 8.0 oz. *Special-B 8.0 oz.
> Biscuit 8.0 oz. *Biscuit 8.0 oz.
> Aromatic 8.0 oz. *Aromatic 8.0 oz.
> Aromatic 8.0 oz. *Aromatic 8.0 oz.
> *CaraMunich 8.0 oz.
>
> I am uncertain as to the steeping and am posting this with the
> hope of constructive criticism.
I don't know what the exact numbers crunch too but it looks to me like the
extract recipe is 40% wheat while the AG recipe is 30% wheat. As for
steeping, I always treat my specialty grains as a mini-mash just in case
something needs to be converted. It really only takes minimal extra effort
to hit the correct temps and leave it for an hour instead of 30 minutes.
Gives me more time to prep for the boil.
Mark R
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