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Date: 20 Aug 2006 02:58:20
From: Washu
Subject: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
of grain, ex 20 lbs grain = > 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
gallons or 10 gallons?
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 12:02:14
From: hankus
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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You do not yet know what the efficiency of YOUR system is so recommendations
will not necessarily be applicable to you.
You need to determine when doing a high gravity beer whether you want to
boil a lot of excess water off (large runoff)or else leave extra sugar
(small run off).Remember that hopping rates are affected by SG and time of
boil.
A compromise siuation is as follows
Plan to sparge using 12.5 g total for 20 lbs of grain.The grain will hold
back a lot of water (1/2 qt per lb-which it will surrender over days).So you
will runoff close to10 g to boil with the last g or so being slow in
dripping out and will be collected long after you have begun the boil.BTW,I
start my boil and add some of my hops- first wort hopping is a bit
controversial-with the first runnings. So add 1/3 (3.75g) of your total
sparge @ 180 degrees to reach 155 but heat 4.25 g so that if you are below
155 you can raise that last 1/2 g to say 190 and then slowly add it.OTOH if
you are too high add some unheated part of the remaining 8.75.Temp comtrol
in mashing is KEY
Add 7.75 @ 180 degrees after the mash is finished (at least 1 hr) but
reserve the last gallon.You are now begining the boil of the first runoff.I
empty again after about 10 mins and then heat up the last gallon and the
runoff from it is the portion I measure and collect in increments as the
boil add hops,etc process goes on.
That means that even after you are boiling away, some runoff will still
be dripping out of the mash tun.These last few drops beyond the almost 10 g
runoff may not be worth waiting for because of the time spent waiting for
them and there is the problem of letting these last runoffs become too weak
and tannic.
I continue to collect late runoffs- but check their SG sequentially and
when it is 1.015 I stop collecting.
Having digested all this,realize that many folks do a 7.5 total water
prep as for a 5 g 1.045-50 OG beer and just add malt extract to boost the OG
thereby avoiding excess boiling time/fuel or inefficient sparging avoiding
wasting grain.This is what I would do
Thanks
Hank
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 16:58:35
From: Norm J
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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On 20 Aug 2006 02:58:20 -0700, "Washu" <rgrantha@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
>to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
>boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
>of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
>scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
>golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
>gallons or 10 gallons?
The volume you sparge is dependent on the OG of the wort you want
regardless of sparge method. Having said that normally I work to a
fixed boil volume and adjust my grain weight to get the right OG.
Knowing how much water the grain will absorb and not drain aids in
estimating the total water volume needed. But in batch sparging even
if your off you measure what you got from the first runnings and
whatever you add for the batch sprarge will all be runoff so you can
get your boil volume pretty exact.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 09:29:21
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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"Washu" <rgrantha@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1156067900.524473.176810@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
> to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
> boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
> of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
> scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
> golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
> gallons or 10 gallons?
>
www.howtobrew.com will be a big help
Okay, you want a 5 gallon recipe that has an OG of around 1.100.
5 gal x 100 (OG) = 500 points Grain yields aprox 27 points per lb
500 / 27 = 18.5 lbs of grain @ 100% efficiency
I only do a mini or partial mash so from here some of the AG folk might need
to correct me.
It's your first mash plus high OG brews don't use grain as efficiently
unless you want to boil off a bunch of water. Figure 70% mash efficiency so
add 30 % to the grain bill for a total of about 21.25 lbs of grain.
Mash at 1 quart per lb. Sparge with probably another 15 qts. Draw off a
total of 6.5 gal and measure your OG. Multiply OG by 6.5 then divide that
number by 100 and the result will be the number of gallons you will need to
boil down to, to achieve your desired 1.100 OG, 1.077 @ 6.5 gal should boil
down to 1.100 @ 5 gal. Good luck.
Mark R
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 06:31:33
From: Melville
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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Washu wrote:
> Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
> to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
> boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
> of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
> scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
> golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
> gallons or 10 gallons?
That depends! We need to know more about the specifics of your AG
system. How big (volume) is your mash tun?
You can go to this website and calculate how much grain/water you can
hold in your mash tun once you know the volume. From there, you should
be able to figure out how much wort you can extract from so much
grain...
<http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml >
Check out Denny Conn's Batch Sparging page for more info on how to
balance mash and sparge water amounts:
<http://www.tastybrew.com/articles/dennyconn001 >
These did the trick for me!
M
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 06:31:20
From: Melville
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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Washu wrote:
> Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
> to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
> boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
> of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
> scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
> golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
> gallons or 10 gallons?
That depends! We need to know more about the specifics of your AG
system. How big (volume) is your mash tun?
You can go to this website and calculate how much grain/water you can
hold in your mash tun once you know the volume. From there, you should
be able to figure out how much wort you can extract from so much
grain...
<http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml >
Check out Denny Conn's Batch Sparging page for more info on how to
balance mash and sparge water amounts:
<http://www.tastybrew.com/articles/dennyconn001 >
These did the trick for me!
M
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 18:13:40
From: Washu
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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> That depends! We need to know more about the specifics of your AG
> system. How big (volume) is your mash tun?
I'm using a 10 gallon round gott/rubbermaid cooler for my mash tun
> These did the trick for me!
Thanks for the links!
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 17:19:25
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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Washu <rgrantha@yahoo.com >:
>Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am
>going to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either
>spage your boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon
>wort for each pound of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort.
>I have an extract strong scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd
>like to do AG with 20 pounds of golden promise as the base malt.
>How much wort should I pull off? 6.5 gallons or 10 gallons?
Here's how I figure water for batch sparging:
Add the water used in the mash.
Subtract the water absorbed by grain. I use 1/2 quart per pound,
after Palmer.
Add the amount of water required to reach the desired pre-boil
volume. This is the amount to sparge with.
I don't do anything special recipe-wise to compensate for batch
sparge vs. fly sparging. Also, with batch sparging, I wouldn't
necessarily lowball your efficiency. There's not much that can
go wrong here.
In addition to howtobrew.com, you should seek out Denny Conn's
batch sparging web page.
hth,
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 07:25:14
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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Washu wrote:
> Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
> to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
> boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
> of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
> scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
> golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
> gallons or 10 gallons?
>
If I was going to try this (I fly sparge) I would do big beer/medium
beer. I would use more like a 30lb grain bill, run off 6.5 gallons for
my high grav beer, then collect the rest in a bucket until I got down to
about 1.010 in the run off. I would then throw in some light DME and
boil that separately with some light hopping to bottle and serve to my
father when he is over.
Not something I would suggest for someone new to AG, but it is
definitely something I would suggest that you put in the back of your
mind for "someday".
Ryan
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 13:56:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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On 20 Aug 2006 02:58:20 -0700, <rgrantha@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
> to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
> boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
> of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
> scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
> golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
> gallons or 10 gallons?
IMO, 6.5 gallons. Your efficiency will be a little bit lower, but if you
try and sparge 10 gallons you're going to be boiling all day in order to
get the volume back down to your batch size. IMO, undersparging and losing
some efficiency points is the "standard" way of doing it.
John.
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 09:10:16
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2006 02:58:20 -0700, <rgrantha@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Well actually I'm not paniced, just anxious. For instance, I am going
>>to do batch sparging, and from what I've read you either spage your
>>boil volume, or you sparge until you get 1/2 gallon wort for each pound
>>of grain, ex 20 lbs grain => 10 gallon wort. I have an extract strong
>>scotch ale recipe (OG 1.100) that I'd like to do AG with 20 pounds of
>>golden promise as the base malt. How much wort should I pull off? 6.5
>>gallons or 10 gallons?
>
>
> IMO, 6.5 gallons. Your efficiency will be a little bit lower, but if you
> try and sparge 10 gallons you're going to be boiling all day in order to
> get the volume back down to your batch size. IMO, undersparging and losing
> some efficiency points is the "standard" way of doing it.
I'd agree with John here -- if you don't know your boil-off rate yet,
then I'd go lower. I lose 1.5 gals/hr at a full boil -- but the actual
amount of water you lose will vary wildly by kettle geometry and other
factors.
I'd also suggest you consider a different beer for your very first
all-grain. I can JUST do a 1.115 beer (but a 6 gallon batch) in my
10-gallon gott, and I get fairly high efficency (I also batch sparge).
If you don't know your efficency yet, you may not get anywhere near
1.100. Your tun is likely to be chock-full of grain, and may be a
little harder to deal with than if you went for a somewhat lighter beer.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 15:50:24
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:10:16 -0500, <mikey666@666swampgas.666com > wrote:
> I'd also suggest you consider a different beer for your very first
> all-grain. I can JUST do a 1.115 beer (but a 6 gallon batch) in my
> 10-gallon gott, and I get fairly high efficency (I also batch sparge).
Agreed. Maybe not the best choice for a first all-grain attempt. If you
do want to go for it though, I'd suggest having some LME/DME on hand in case
you come up short on your gravity. You could "top off" the wort with
extract to hit the OG. Sort of a "partial extract" batch.
John.
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 00:29:20
From: Washu
Subject: Re: AG gear ordered, now I'm paniced!
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I have a handle on what to do now.
First attempt will be to create an AG version of an extract kit for an
80/ ale that's waiting to be brewed, split the starter between the kit
and the AG version and see in a few weeks which I like better DME/LME
or freshly crushed grain.
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