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Date: 13 Dec 2006 17:57:47
From:
Subject: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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I'm planning a 3 gal AG. I've heard that too much
crystal can adversely affect the taste.I can buy my
grain in quantities of 2 kg (4.4 pds) for 2-row and
0.5 kg (1.1 pds) for crystal. What's a good basic
ratio for mixing the two?
Don
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 04:14:27
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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<dshesnicky@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1166061467.449576.99420@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm planning a 3 gal AG. I've heard that too much
> crystal can adversely affect the taste.I can buy my
> grain in quantities of 2 kg (4.4 pds) for 2-row and
> 0.5 kg (1.1 pds) for crystal. What's a good basic
> ratio for mixing the two?
>
> Don
>
Too many variables.
Depends on what you're trying to achieve.
Crystal comes in lightly roasted to dark roasted and many shades in between.
Assumming you're using one of the lighter crystals, it will add some
sweetness as the sugars are mostly non fermentable and add body/mouthfeel as
crystal adds extra dextrins - which is a form of sugar anyway but doesn't
taste particularly sugary.
Depending on the level of roasting, it will add a caramalised flavour
because the starch has been converted to sugar during processing and roasted
which then caramelises the sugars.
Personally, I find too much crystal does add a peculiar flavour to beer
which I do not like. I assume others don't like it either because generally
speaking, only small quantities are usually added to the grain bill. My
opinion only but, I wouldn't go much over 10%.
Then again it's entirely up to you as an experimental home brewer (as we all
are) and then again also, there will be those that disagree with my views,
but that's home brewing for ya!
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 10:08:59
From:
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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> Too many variables.
> Depends on what you're trying to achieve.
> Crystal comes in lightly roasted to dark roasted and many shades in between.
> Assumming you're using one of the lighter crystals, it will add some
> sweetness as the sugars are mostly non fermentable and add body/mouthfeel as
> crystal adds extra dextrins - which is a form of sugar anyway but doesn't
> taste particularly sugary.
> Depending on the level of roasting, it will add a caramalised flavour
> because the starch has been converted to sugar during processing and roasted
> which then caramelises the sugars.
> Personally, I find too much crystal does add a peculiar flavour to beer
> which I do not like. I assume others don't like it either because generally
> speaking, only small quantities are usually added to the grain bill. My
> opinion only but, I wouldn't go much over 10%.
> Then again it's entirely up to you as an experimental home brewer (as we all
> are) and then again also, there will be those that disagree with my views,
> but that's home brewing for ya!
10% is the type of number I'm looking for. I'm just trying
to do a basic AG, something I can enjoy and start
tweaking from. I've gotten an offbeat taste in my first
two (2-row and crystal then a 2-row and munich) and
I'm now trying to nail down the most basic run-of-
the-mill recipe and technique that I can get, look
at all the variables in recipe and technique and
level set on them.
I actually think the problem was my failure to set up
a filter bed when sparging but I still want to go through
the above process.
Don
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 19:29:08
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> 10% is the type of number I'm looking for. I'm just trying
> to do a basic AG, something I can enjoy and start
> tweaking from. I've gotten an offbeat taste in my first
> two (2-row and crystal then a 2-row and munich) and
> I'm now trying to nail down the most basic run-of-
> the-mill recipe and technique that I can get, look
> at all the variables in recipe and technique and
> level set on them.
>
> I actually think the problem was my failure to set up
> a filter bed when sparging but I still want to go through
> the above process.
>
Try a basic pale ale.
95% American 2-row
5% 55-60 deg L Crystal
Mash at 153 deg F with a 1.25 qts/lb water/grain ratio for 60 minutes
Aim for 1.050 original gravity. If you hit your target, hop to 36 IBU. Stick
to a single hop like Cascade or Fuggle.
See how you like it. Then adjust from there.
So ...
Too sweet? Try lowering the mash temp or potentially decreasing the crystal.
Too dry? Increase the mash temp.
Hop flavor bland? Increase the flavor hops at 15min (adjust bittering
accordingly).
Not very complex? Try adding 3% Victory or Biscuit malt. Or consider
replacing a pound or two of your base malt with Munich.
I hope that helps.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 15:57:26
From:
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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> Try a basic pale ale.
>
> 95% American 2-row
> 5% 55-60 deg L Crystal
>
> Mash at 153 deg F with a 1.25 qts/lb water/grain ratio for 60 minutes
>
> Aim for 1.050 original gravity. If you hit your target, hop to 36 IBU. Stick
> to a single hop like Cascade or Fuggle.
36 IBU... yeech, maybe 15.
Don
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 17:57:44
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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On 14 Dec 2006 15:57:26 -0800, <dshesnicky@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>
>> Try a basic pale ale.
>>
>> 95% American 2-row
>> 5% 55-60 deg L Crystal
>>
>> Mash at 153 deg F with a 1.25 qts/lb water/grain ratio for 60 minutes
>>
>> Aim for 1.050 original gravity. If you hit your target, hop to 36 IBU. Stick
>> to a single hop like Cascade or Fuggle.
>
> 36 IBU... yeech, maybe 15.
15 IBUs on a beer with an OG of 1.050? That's not going to be very balanced.
I guess that's OK if it's what you really want.
John.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:07:15
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>> Try a basic pale ale.
>>
>> 95% American 2-row
>> 5% 55-60 deg L Crystal
>>
>> Mash at 153 deg F with a 1.25 qts/lb water/grain ratio for 60 minutes
>>
>> Aim for 1.050 original gravity. If you hit your target, hop to 36 IBU. Stick
>> to a single hop like Cascade or Fuggle.
>
> 36 IBU... yeech, maybe 15.
>
To each his own. I like pale ales and a typical hopping ratio .7 suggests
about 35 IBU for a 1.050 specific gravity (50 * .7 = 35). So, I believe my
suggestion of 36 IBU to be a decent start. YMMV.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 15:54:18
From:
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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> It depends upon what you are trying to brew. For a pale ale? Maybe 5%
> crystal. For a Brown Ale? Maybe 10 to 15% crytal? For a dry stout? No
> crystal.
I don't want to get to hung up on the type. There's too
much overlap in the middle ground - blonde ale, mild.
Drinkable lawnmower beer... or as we say up here, ice
fishing beer Ey. So 10% or under seems to be what
I've read here.
Don
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:08:42
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>> It depends upon what you are trying to brew. For a pale ale? Maybe 5%
>> crystal. For a Brown Ale? Maybe 10 to 15% crytal? For a dry stout? No
>> crystal.
>
> I don't want to get to hung up on the type. There's too
> much overlap in the middle ground - blonde ale, mild.
> Drinkable lawnmower beer... or as we say up here, ice
> fishing beer Ey. So 10% or under seems to be what
> I've read here.
>
Well, your question seems rather vague to me. I guess my answer above should
be more vague, so I will give you a better answer below:
".."
:-)
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 19:51:58
From: admin
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've heard that too much crystal can adversely
> affect the taste.
Well, what it can do is completely upset the balance in a beer if not
used appropriately, as it can add a cloying sweetness, if not offset by
the bitterness provided by the hops. Although Sara Hughes Dark Ruby Mild
uses 25% Crystal and 75% Pale for a 1.058 Beer (Awesome too :) ) its
very rare that I'll go much above 10% and probably only about 5% in
reality. I tend to use other Caramel Malts and Munich Malt to provide
that residual sweetness in a beer.
--
UK Homebrew List Manager
Want to join us? Send a message to subscribeme2 At uk Dash homebrew dot
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NOTE Replace myaddress@myhost.com with the email address you want to
subscribe :)
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 19:24:15
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I'm planning a 3 gal AG. I've heard that too much
> crystal can adversely affect the taste.I can buy my
> grain in quantities of 2 kg (4.4 pds) for 2-row and
> 0.5 kg (1.1 pds) for crystal. What's a good basic
> ratio for mixing the two?
It depends upon what you are trying to brew. For a pale ale? Maybe 5%
crystal. For a Brown Ale? Maybe 10 to 15% crytal? For a dry stout? No
crystal.
Eh?
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:22:49
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
> 36 IBU... yeech, maybe 15.
15??? Jeezus, whaddya do? Jusr wave a hop cone over the kettle? ;)
I'd go for 45, minimum!
Aren't individual tastes great?
--------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 06:26:10
From:
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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>
> Well, your question seems rather vague to me. I guess my answer above should
> be more vague, so I will give you a better answer below:
I'm not trying to be vague, but perhaps I was when
most people here are talking about styles and I'm just
trying to get a basic recipe that is drinkable. Anyway
my apologies and I think I have my answer, less
than 10%.
Don
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 15:01:57
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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dshesnicky@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Well, your question seems rather vague to me. I guess my answer above should
>> be more vague, so I will give you a better answer below:
>
> I'm not trying to be vague, but perhaps I was when
> most people here are talking about styles and I'm just
> trying to get a basic recipe that is drinkable. Anyway
> my apologies and I think I have my answer, less
> than 10%.
Well you asked what is the appropriate amount of crystal malt. That can be
only answered if we know what you are trying to accomplish. A style of beer
is the most common goal that might dictate the answer, which is why you are
being asked this question.
It seems clear that you are looking for a basic starting point from which to
learn what changing variables may affect the product. That is why I suggested
the Pale Ale recipe earlier.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 12:04:39
From:
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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> > 36 IBU... yeech, maybe 15.
>
> 15??? Jeezus, whaddya do? Jusr wave a hop cone over the kettle? ;)
> I'd go for 45, minimum!
I don't like to let the hop cone get that close,
I generally wave it over the kettle from the
bedroom on the 2nd floor above the stove.
I wonder was a "real" ale would taste like,
0 IBU. Have to try that sometime... or maybe 5.
It's like that old saw "if you wanted coffee
why did you order cream and sugar" :)
> Aren't individual tastes great?
That they are. Otherwise we'ed all
still be drinking water.
Don
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 11:55:18
From:
Subject: Re: AG crystal to 2-row ratio
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> > 36 IBU... yeech, maybe 15.
>
> 15 IBUs on a beer with an OG of 1.050? That's not going to be very balanced.
> I guess that's OK if it's what you really want.
The 1.050 number wasn't mine, I'm probably looking
at 1.040 or slightly more. I'm not much for the bitter
side of things thus my original joking "yeech" comment.
I think my haste to post a couple of replies ended up
being taken the wrong way, my fault really, I should
know the medium well enough now not to do that.
Anyway I have my grain (2-row/crystal) and hops (East
Kent) and Nottingham now and I'm working out the details
of my 3rd attempt at a 3 gallon stove top/oven Basic "Get
It Right" AG and hopefully will solve the problem of my
small off beat taste. Thanks for all the help.
Don
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