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Date: 17 Oct 2006 06:16:33
From: Sheheryar
Subject: 24 hour ferment complete
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Hi
I poured a 2.5 gallon batch of wort onto a pretty large yeast cake of
WLP 001 and it was vigorously fermenting almost immediately. The temp
was around 60 but had dropped to around 55 in 24 hours. The odd thing
is that it seems to be bubbling around once every minute or so now. Is
it possible that it is done? I realize that it was a small batch and
the yeast cake was big but I have never seen a ferment be done so
quickly. The question it raises is that can one double this and
ferment in a larger bucket and be done with a 5 gallon batch this
quickly?
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 14:39:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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On 17 2006 06:16:33 -0700, <sheheryarhasnain@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hi
> I poured a 2.5 gallon batch of wort onto a pretty large yeast cake of
> WLP 001 and it was vigorously fermenting almost immediately. The temp
> was around 60 but had dropped to around 55 in 24 hours. The odd thing
> is that it seems to be bubbling around once every minute or so now. Is
> it possible that it is done?
I don't know, it's virtually impossible to tell just from the bubbling.
Take a gravity reading and see where it is at. That's the only way you're
really going to know. Could be done, could be stuck, could have just
slowed down due to the temp... etc.
> I realize that it was a small batch and the yeast cake was big but I have
> never seen a ferment be done so quickly. The question it raises is that
> can one double this and ferment in a larger bucket and be done with a 5
> gallon batch this quickly?
The large bucket doesn't have much to do with it. It's possible to get a
5 gallon batch to ferment out completely in 24 hours, but you need several
things going for you. A relatively low OG beer, pitching a lot of yeast,
and usually a relatively high temperature. It's not something that commonly
happens though.
John.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:50:59
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Ronin wrote:
>
> Well "Iced Tea" is a misnomer anyways. I was referencing brewing tea
> and putting it in a pitcher. Ice is only added in a glass. :)
>
> What I have noticed is that this (very distinct I might add) flavor
> occurs much more rapidly in a pitcher of tea left on the counter as
> opposed to one put in the fridge. Which, of tanins and esters, would
> be impeded more by cold?
Tough question....as a WAG, I'd say neither, but I'm so far out of my
depth here...
-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:34:37
From: Ronin
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Well "Iced Tea" is a misnomer anyways. I was referencing brewing tea
and putting it in a pitcher. Ice is only added in a glass. :)
What I have noticed is that this (very distinct I might add) flavor
occurs much more rapidly in a pitcher of tea left on the counter as
opposed to one put in the fridge. Which, of tanins and esters, would
be impeded more by cold?
Denny Conn wrote:
> Ronin wrote:
>
> > Have you ever had iced tea which had set out to long so that it
> > "turned"? That's an odd taste, and I would describe it as fruity, is
> > that how you'd describe the taste given by ester?
>
> I don't drink iced tea, so unfortunately I have no idea! In general,
> any fruity taste or aroma is related to an ester, just like spicy aromas
> and flavors are related to phenolics.
>
> ---------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:05:48
From: Sheheryar
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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The temps were most definintely not high (actually a bit too low) -- I
think I will take your advice and do a gravity check tonight. Thanks.
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 17 2006 06:16:33 -0700, <sheheryarhasnain@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> > I poured a 2.5 gallon batch of wort onto a pretty large yeast cake of
> > WLP 001 and it was vigorously fermenting almost immediately. The temp
> > was around 60 but had dropped to around 55 in 24 hours. The odd thing
> > is that it seems to be bubbling around once every minute or so now. Is
> > it possible that it is done?
>
> I don't know, it's virtually impossible to tell just from the bubbling.
> Take a gravity reading and see where it is at. That's the only way you're
> really going to know. Could be done, could be stuck, could have just
> slowed down due to the temp... etc.
>
> > I realize that it was a small batch and the yeast cake was big but I have
> > never seen a ferment be done so quickly. The question it raises is that
> > can one double this and ferment in a larger bucket and be done with a 5
> > gallon batch this quickly?
>
> The large bucket doesn't have much to do with it. It's possible to get a
> 5 gallon batch to ferment out completely in 24 hours, but you need several
> things going for you. A relatively low OG beer, pitching a lot of yeast,
> and usually a relatively high temperature. It's not something that commonly
> happens though.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 15:04:23
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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On 17 2006 15:05:48 -0700, <sheheryarhasnain@hotmail.com > wrote:
> The temps were most definintely not high (actually a bit too low) -- I
> think I will take your advice and do a gravity check tonight. Thanks.
Yeah, I just meant that in general high temps can cause a really fast
ferment.
Obviously that's not the case here. I would suspect the opposite problem
in that your temps are too low and the activity has slowed down rather
than completed. 55F is pretty cold for an ale yeast. It'll still work
at that temp but will be much slower, maybe giving the visual appearance
that it has stopped. That's why you shouldn't really rely on visual
appearances (airlock bubbles, etc).
John.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:14:49
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Ronin wrote:
> Have you ever had iced tea which had set out to long so that it
> "turned"? That's an odd taste, and I would describe it as fruity, is
> that how you'd describe the taste given by ester?
I don't drink iced tea, so unfortunately I have no idea! In general,
any fruity taste or aroma is related to an ester, just like spicy aromas
and flavors are related to phenolics.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 20:22:16
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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On Tue, 17 2006 13:14:49 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> Ronin wrote:
>
>> Have you ever had iced tea which had set out to long so that it
>> "turned"? That's an odd taste, and I would describe it as fruity, is
>> that how you'd describe the taste given by ester?
>
> I don't drink iced tea, so unfortunately I have no idea! In general,
> any fruity taste or aroma is related to an ester, just like spicy aromas
> and flavors are related to phenolics.
What he might be noticing in the tea example is oxidation. I wouldn't
necessarily describe oxidation as fruity though, but maybe it is in tea.
John.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:51:34
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> What he might be noticing in the tea example is oxidation. I wouldn't
> necessarily describe oxidation as fruity though, but maybe it is in tea.
Yeah, maybe...I was wondering if it could be tannis, too. Not being a
tea drinker, I'm shooting blind here...
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 20:57:44
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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On Tue, 17 2006 13:51:34 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> What he might be noticing in the tea example is oxidation. I wouldn't
>> necessarily describe oxidation as fruity though, but maybe it is in tea.
>
> Yeah, maybe...I was wondering if it could be tannis, too. Not being a
> tea drinker, I'm shooting blind here...
Tannins would probably be noticable in the beginning though. I'm not
much of a tea drinker either, but the only thing I can think of that would
really show up by letting it sit out too long would be oxidation. I'm
just guessing too though.
John.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:08:38
From: Ronin
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Ok, so I have been using my terms wrong. Not suprised, I can make an
awesome brew, but that's about as good as my description gets "Awesome"
Have you ever had iced tea which had set out to long so that it
"turned"? That's an odd taste, and I would describe it as fruity, is
that how you'd describe the taste given by ester?
Denny Conn wrote:
> Ronin wrote:
> >
> > Hehe, Esther = sharp bitter woman, ester = sharp bitter taste
>
> Actually, a fruity taste....
>
> ---------->Denny
>
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 12:52:46
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Ronin wrote:
>
> Hehe, Esther = sharp bitter woman, ester = sharp bitter taste
Actually, a fruity taste....
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 12:21:09
From: Ronin
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Hehe, Esther = sharp bitter woman, ester = sharp bitter taste
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 17 2006 11:32:33 -0700, <ashazard@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Fermenting at higher temps can give some real esthery taste to your
> > beer as well as the alchohol seems to be much more potent in my
> > experience.
>
> In addition to esters, it also promotes fusels which is what gives it
> the potent "rocket fuel" type flavor. Fusels are also known for contributing
> to hangovers.
>
> I certainly wouldn't raise the temp on purpose just to make the fermentation
> complete in a day. Why the rush?
>
>
> John.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 11:32:33
From: Ronin
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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Fermenting at higher temps can give some real esthery taste to your
beer as well as the alchohol seems to be much more potent in my
experience.
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 17 2006 06:16:33 -0700, <sheheryarhasnain@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> > I poured a 2.5 gallon batch of wort onto a pretty large yeast cake of
> > WLP 001 and it was vigorously fermenting almost immediately. The temp
> > was around 60 but had dropped to around 55 in 24 hours. The odd thing
> > is that it seems to be bubbling around once every minute or so now. Is
> > it possible that it is done?
>
> I don't know, it's virtually impossible to tell just from the bubbling.
> Take a gravity reading and see where it is at. That's the only way you're
> really going to know. Could be done, could be stuck, could have just
> slowed down due to the temp... etc.
>
> > I realize that it was a small batch and the yeast cake was big but I have
> > never seen a ferment be done so quickly. The question it raises is that
> > can one double this and ferment in a larger bucket and be done with a 5
> > gallon batch this quickly?
>
> The large bucket doesn't have much to do with it. It's possible to get a
> 5 gallon batch to ferment out completely in 24 hours, but you need several
> things going for you. A relatively low OG beer, pitching a lot of yeast,
> and usually a relatively high temperature. It's not something that commonly
> happens though.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 18:35:49
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: 24 hour ferment complete
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On 17 2006 11:32:33 -0700, <ashazard@gmail.com > wrote:
> Fermenting at higher temps can give some real esthery taste to your
> beer as well as the alchohol seems to be much more potent in my
> experience.
In addition to esters, it also promotes fusels which is what gives it
the potent "rocket fuel" type flavor. Fusels are also known for contributing
to hangovers.
I certainly wouldn't raise the temp on purpose just to make the fermentation
complete in a day. Why the rush?
John.
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