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Main
Date: 13 Nov 2006 21:00:06
From: Jeremy Jones
Subject: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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Hi All,
Last night I did a little experiment with the hop schedule for an
Imperial-style California Common (I know some of you may scoff at the
ideas of either Imperial or California Common being "styles", but humor
me here...). I did a 90 minute boil and added hops as follows:
90 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
80 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
70 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
60 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
50 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
40 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
30 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
20 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
10 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
0 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
The wort started out at 1.036 w/8 lbs grains. At 15 minutes remaining
in the boil, I added 6 lbs liquid pale malt extract. My gravity after
cooling was 1.081. I plugged all the numbers into QBrew, and it tells
me I ought to have 83 BU. What kind of formulas can I use to calculate
this myself?
Anyone else try anything funny like this with their hops? Just
wondering what to expect. Besides crazy high BU, I know...
Thanks,
Jeremy
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Date: 13 Nov 2006 20:27:11
From:
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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Jeremy Jones wrote:
>
> First, should there be a qualitative difference in the character of the
> beer having used 10 small hop additions every 10 minutes versus if I had
> used the standard 3 larger additions? Or do you figure it'd be about
> the same?
Not that I've noticed, but that's just me. A bunch of small additions
didn't seem to change what the beer was like compared to single
additions that were a bit smaller than the total at the normal times.
60, 10, 5. Maybe 15 for the middle, but...
>
> Second, doing this "extract late" method, where the 6 lbs of extract
> were added with 15 minutes remaining in the boil, how does that alter
> the calculations used to determine BUs? If I were to crunch the
> numbers, would all the hop additions be discreetly calculated based on
> the gravity of the wort at the time of the addition, then added up; or
> does raising the gravity at that late stage have a retroactive effect on
> the BU calculations earlier in the boil?
Since you had enough grain in the original mash/sparge the utilization
should be a little higher than a 1.080 OG, but nothing like what you
get with hop tea.
>
> Jeremy
Bryan
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Date: 13 Nov 2006 20:00:21
From:
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> : 90 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
> : 80 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
> : 70 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
> : 60 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
> : 50 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
> : 40 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
> : 30 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
> : 20 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
> : 10 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
> : 0 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
>
> : The wort started out at 1.036 w/8 lbs grains. At 15 minutes remaining
> : in the boil, I added 6 lbs liquid pale malt extract. My gravity after
> : cooling was 1.081. I plugged all the numbers into QBrew, and it tells
> : me I ought to have 83 BU. What kind of formulas can I use to calculate
> : this myself?
>
> : Anyone else try anything funny like this with their hops? Just
> : wondering what to expect. Besides crazy high BU, I know...
>
> Dude... with that low of gravity wort, the hops utilization is going to be
> insane and Chinook is brutal as bittering. I made what I called a "Chip your Teeth
> IPA" Using only 1.5 oz of Chinook in a 1.080 IPA. Whatever, dude... it's your funeral
> (but put a "status report" clause in your will so your benefactors will let us all
> know how it went... :)
>
> ;-)
>
> -Cory
>
>
> --
>
> *************************************************************************
> * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
> * Electrical Engineering *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> *************************************************************************
What he shows should be eminently survivable. For a hop fanatic like
me. I agree, I would prefer a different hop for the bittering simply
because I don't like Chinooks flavor (cohuhumulone related?), but
nothing is too bitter. :)
Bryan
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Date: 13 Nov 2006 21:27:50
From:
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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: 90 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
: 80 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
: 70 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
: 60 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
: 50 min - .3 oz Chinook 12.9
: 40 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
: 30 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
: 20 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
: 10 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
: 0 min - .4 oz Northern Brewer 6.5
: The wort started out at 1.036 w/8 lbs grains. At 15 minutes remaining
: in the boil, I added 6 lbs liquid pale malt extract. My gravity after
: cooling was 1.081. I plugged all the numbers into QBrew, and it tells
: me I ought to have 83 BU. What kind of formulas can I use to calculate
: this myself?
: Anyone else try anything funny like this with their hops? Just
: wondering what to expect. Besides crazy high BU, I know...
Dude... with that low of gravity wort, the hops utilization is going to be
insane and Chinook is brutal as bittering. I made what I called a "Chip your Teeth
IPA" Using only 1.5 oz of Chinook in a 1.080 IPA. Whatever, dude... it's your funeral
(but put a "status report" clause in your will so your benefactors will let us all
know how it went... :)
;-)
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 14 Nov 2006 00:23:31
From: Jeremy Jones
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
>
> Dude... with that low of gravity wort, the hops utilization is going to be
> insane and Chinook is brutal as bittering. I made what I called a "Chip your Teeth
> IPA" Using only 1.5 oz of Chinook in a 1.080 IPA. Whatever, dude... it's your funeral
> (but put a "status report" clause in your will so your benefactors will let us all
> know how it went... :)
>
> ;-)
>
> -Cory
>
>
Well, looking over a few Arrogant Bastard clones, I've seen as high as
3oz Chinook in a 5 gallon batch. You really think 1.5 oz is too high?
Last one I did similar had 1 oz Columbus at 15 alpha for 60 min, 1 oz
Northern Brewer at 6 alpha for 30 min, and 1 oz Northern Brewer at 6
alpha for 5 min. That one started out at 1.080, ended at 1.022 and was
quite balanced, I thought, and I'm really not too much of a hop-head.
That, of course, was a concentrated boil of 3 gallons w 10 lbs extract
and 1/2 lb Crystal 40. So the utilization would obviously be a bit less
there...
Jeremy
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Date: 14 Nov 2006 00:54:27
From:
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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: Well, looking over a few Arrogant Bastard clones, I've seen as high as
: 3oz Chinook in a 5 gallon batch. You really think 1.5 oz is too high?
: Last one I did similar had 1 oz Columbus at 15 alpha for 60 min, 1 oz
: Northern Brewer at 6 alpha for 30 min, and 1 oz Northern Brewer at 6
: alpha for 5 min. That one started out at 1.080, ended at 1.022 and was
: quite balanced, I thought, and I'm really not too much of a hop-head.
: That, of course, was a concentrated boil of 3 gallons w 10 lbs extract
: and 1/2 lb Crystal 40. So the utilization would obviously be a bit less
: there...
I don't recall what my brother's AB clone used for quantity, but I do know it was Chinook... a very good clone, BTW. Now that I
read through the recipe and add up the Chinook, the 1.5oz total probably isn't TOO bad with an 80-point final wort, but factors of:
- low-gravity boil will increase utilization
- All the the 10-minute additions are before the 45-60 minute "window" so pretty much everything will be utilized as bitterness
- The additional Northern Brewer (or at least the first few additions) will add significant bitterness as well.
- The extract will probably ferment fairly dry so there may not be enough sweetness to balance the bitterness
It should be OK, but definately on the high BU side of the "style" IMO.
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 14 Nov 2006 03:42:06
From: Jeremy Jones
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> I don't recall what my brother's AB clone used for quantity, but I do know it was Chinook... a very good clone, BTW. Now that I
> read through the recipe and add up the Chinook, the 1.5oz total probably isn't TOO bad with an 80-point final wort, but factors of:
> - low-gravity boil will increase utilization
> - All the the 10-minute additions are before the 45-60 minute "window" so pretty much everything will be utilized as bitterness
> - The additional Northern Brewer (or at least the first few additions) will add significant bitterness as well.
> - The extract will probably ferment fairly dry so there may not be enough sweetness to balance the bitterness
>
> It should be OK, but definately on the high BU side of the "style" IMO.
>
> -Cory
>
O.K. -- let's assume it's too bitter.
I still have a couple questions that maybe weren't clear in my original
post.
First, should there be a qualitative difference in the character of the
beer having used 10 small hop additions every 10 minutes versus if I had
used the standard 3 larger additions? Or do you figure it'd be about
the same?
Second, doing this "extract late" method, where the 6 lbs of extract
were added with 15 minutes remaining in the boil, how does that alter
the calculations used to determine BUs? If I were to crunch the
numbers, would all the hop additions be discreetly calculated based on
the gravity of the wort at the time of the addition, then added up; or
does raising the gravity at that late stage have a retroactive effect on
the BU calculations earlier in the boil?
Jeremy
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Date: 14 Nov 2006 14:38:14
From:
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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: First, should there be a qualitative difference in the character of the
: beer having used 10 small hop additions every 10 minutes versus if I had
: used the standard 3 larger additions? Or do you figure it'd be about
: the same?
I'd say in general, "yes," but probably only for additions that were made
later than 45 minutes from the end. I don't recall where I've googled all of that,
but the "hops utilization" charts pretty much show that bitterness is about all that's
extracted after about 45 minutes. It's a gradual thing, but it's probably safe to say
that anything over 60 minutes more or less counts as a "60-minute bitterness
addition."
: Second, doing this "extract late" method, where the 6 lbs of extract
: were added with 15 minutes remaining in the boil, how does that alter
: the calculations used to determine BUs? If I were to crunch the
: numbers, would all the hop additions be discreetly calculated based on
: the gravity of the wort at the time of the addition, then added up; or
: does raising the gravity at that late stage have a retroactive effect on
: the BU calculations earlier in the boil?
Dunno. I haven't done any of the BU calculations. I generally let qbrew do
that for me. From the bit I've read on it there are a few different ways of computing
it, and they're all relatively complicated.
I've been buying my hops in "bulk" (1lb increments), so the AAU is probably
slowly going down on them as well. In other words, RDWHAHB... :)
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 15 Nov 2006 19:24:09
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:42:06 GMT, <jeremy@captainstupid.net > wrote:
> First, should there be a qualitative difference in the character of the
> beer having used 10 small hop additions every 10 minutes versus if I had
> used the standard 3 larger additions? Or do you figure it'd be about
> the same?
Probably no real significant difference. Sounds like a lot more work
though.
> Second, doing this "extract late" method, where the 6 lbs of extract
> were added with 15 minutes remaining in the boil, how does that alter
> the calculations used to determine BUs?
The lower gravity during the boil will increase the utilization, IE increase
the amount of bitterness you get.
> If I were to crunch the
> numbers, would all the hop additions be discreetly calculated based on
> the gravity of the wort at the time of the addition, then added up; or
> does raising the gravity at that late stage have a retroactive effect on
> the BU calculations earlier in the boil?
Changing the gravity at the end wouldn't retroactively effect the IBUs. It's
mainly dependent on the gravity during the majority of the boil.
John.
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Date: 13 Nov 2006 18:35:00
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: 10 Minute Hop Schedule
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Jeremy Jones wrote:
> papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
>>
>> Dude... with that low of gravity wort, the hops utilization is
>> going to be insane and Chinook is brutal as bittering. I made what I
>> called a "Chip your Teeth IPA" Using only 1.5 oz of Chinook in a 1.080
>> IPA. Whatever, dude... it's your funeral (but put a "status report"
>> clause in your will so your benefactors will let us all know how it
>> went... :)
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> -Cory
>>
>>
>
> Well, looking over a few Arrogant Bastard clones, I've seen as high as
> 3oz Chinook in a 5 gallon batch. You really think 1.5 oz is too high?
> Last one I did similar had 1 oz Columbus at 15 alpha for 60 min, 1 oz
> Northern Brewer at 6 alpha for 30 min, and 1 oz Northern Brewer at 6
> alpha for 5 min. That one started out at 1.080, ended at 1.022 and was
> quite balanced, I thought, and I'm really not too much of a hop-head.
> That, of course, was a concentrated boil of 3 gallons w 10 lbs extract
> and 1/2 lb Crystal 40. So the utilization would obviously be a bit less
> there...
It'll probably be OK -- I just re-read your post and realized your OG
was 1.081, not 1.036...
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
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