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Date: 17 Sep 2007 07:52:03
From: beerboyfeelgood
Subject: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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I was watching an episode of The Thirsty Traveler the other night. If you
haven't seen the show, the host (Kevin Brauch) travels around the world
sampling different types of alcoholic beverages (wine, beer, whiskey, you
name it...). Anyway, he was in London going from pub to pub trying out all
of the different English bitters offered. He usually gives background info
and historical info as he wanders around drinking, and one of the standard
items in each pub was that the ale needed to be pumped out with a manual
pump, rather than using the faucet type dispenser that we are familiar with
here in the US. Has anyone used such a pump for the home? I'm just
curious. I did notice that the website for CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale)
claims that such manual pumps are the only way to dispense ales...
Interesting.
kev
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Date: 18 Sep 2007 17:29:11
From: Scott P
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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Hi Kev,
The weather is outstanding now that Fall is lifting away the
oppressive Summer heat! The trees are beginning to change, and the
mosquitoes are abating! It's odd - with warm temperatures brewing
isn't often on my mind. But as soon as the mercury dips into the
50's, it's about all I can think about.
I've lived in Boise for years, and just moved out to Star this
Summer. It's a great community...had only 1 felony in the town last
year. To make it even better, I live two houses away on the same
street from one of my college buddies. Oh, and I live less than 300
yards from the town grocery store that offers liquor sales seven days
a week. Call it Nirvana...
This morning while walking to the bus stop for my commute to Boise, I
decided to get a batch of hard cider going on the weekend.
Take care,
Scott P.
Brewing in Star, Idaho
> Great info, Scott. "Beer engine" actually pulls up a lot of hits. I've
> always wanted to try cask conditioning one of my brews, but I don't go
> through that much beer. I'm sure that it would get extremely flat before I
> finished it off. On a side note, how's the weather up there in Star? I
> lived in Boise for 4 years and absolutely loved it. You really can't beat
> the fall, up there. Talk about ideal brewing weather...
>
> kev
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Date: 19 Sep 2007 09:42:45
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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"Scott P" <scottphillips1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190136551.361795.76650@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Kev,
>
> The weather is outstanding now that Fall is lifting away the
> oppressive Summer heat! The trees are beginning to change, and the
> mosquitoes are abating! It's odd - with warm temperatures brewing
> isn't often on my mind. But as soon as the mercury dips into the
> 50's, it's about all I can think about.
>
50's! I am totally jealous. It dipped into the 80's the day before
yesterday. Well that was the high. It's still in the 90's with night time
lows around 75. If I had to wait for day time temps in the 50's Id only get
to brew 3 or 4 weeks a year. :-(
And by the way, happy 25th birthday to the smiley :-)
Mark R
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 21:54:54
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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beerboyfeelgood wrote:
> I did notice that the website for CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale)
> claims that such manual pumps are the only way to dispense ales...
> Interesting.
It doesn't say that at all. Bottle-conditioned beer fits the CAMRA
definition of Real Ale and draught beer can be pumped electrically, pushed
through with compressed air (as it is at The Jerusalem Tavern in
Clerkenwell, for instance) or just served via gravity as most beers are at
most CAMRA beer festivals. What isn't allowed is the use of a handpump to
serve beer which is not Real Ale as that is in breach of UK Trading
Standards legislation. CAMRA also doesn't like CO2 blanket pressure (cask
breathers) but that doesn't stop a beer from being Real Ale. The pub won't
get in the Good Beer Guide if it uses cask breathers (bloody silly rule in
my opinion).
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 18:20:42
From: Scott P
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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On Sep 17, 10:51 am, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com > wrote:
> "Scott P" <scottphilli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190043754.534329.198620@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi Kev,
>
> > The "beer pump" you referred to is actually called a beer engine.
>
> > Mark noted that one of the disadvantages of a beer engine is that it
> > pulls air on top of the beer in the cask. This is not always the
> > case. Many setups equalize the pressure in the cask by venting co2
> > into the cask as beer is drawn out. The co2 blankets the beer
> > protecting it from oxidation and keeping the carbonation level
> > stable.
>
> > Typically, ale served with a beer engine is cask conditioned - that is
> > to say the beer supports an active yeast culture; it is served at
> > cellar temperature, which is about 55 degrees and naturally
> > carbonated. Real Ale, according to CAMRA, is served at about 1.5
> > volumes of co2 pressure at 55 degrees; when compared to typical
> > American beer like Bud or Coors, Real Ale is almost flat. In the U.S.
> > most expect their beer to be carbonated to 2.5 to 2.8 volumes of
> > pressure.
>
> Isn't it something to do with a ban on force carbonating? They can't serve ale
> that isn't completely naturally carbonated?
>
> Bob
More or less...here's what they have to say on the Campaign for Real
Ale website (http://www.camra.org.uk): "Real ale is a natural product
brewed using traditional ingredients and left to mature in the cask
(container) from which it is served in the pub through a process
called secondary fermentation".
Their site also discusses the "merits" of government regulating what
constitutes a full pint. I'd much rather prefer that government stick
to the basics like not limiting free trade within and between the
various states, respecting private property rights, coining money and
defending our borders...but this may be WAY off topic!
Cheers!
Scott P.
Brewing in Star, Idaho
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 13:57:15
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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"Scott P" <scottphillips1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190053242.359759.202550@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 17, 10:51 am, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Scott P" <scottphilli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1190043754.534329.198620@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi Kev,
>>
>> > The "beer pump" you referred to is actually called a beer engine.
>>
>> > Mark noted that one of the disadvantages of a beer engine is that it
>> > pulls air on top of the beer in the cask. This is not always the
>> > case. Many setups equalize the pressure in the cask by venting co2
>> > into the cask as beer is drawn out. The co2 blankets the beer
>> > protecting it from oxidation and keeping the carbonation level
>> > stable.
>>
>> > Typically, ale served with a beer engine is cask conditioned - that is
>> > to say the beer supports an active yeast culture; it is served at
>> > cellar temperature, which is about 55 degrees and naturally
>> > carbonated. Real Ale, according to CAMRA, is served at about 1.5
>> > volumes of co2 pressure at 55 degrees; when compared to typical
>> > American beer like Bud or Coors, Real Ale is almost flat. In the U.S.
>> > most expect their beer to be carbonated to 2.5 to 2.8 volumes of
>> > pressure.
>>
>> Isn't it something to do with a ban on force carbonating? They can't serve
>> ale
>> that isn't completely naturally carbonated?
>>
>> Bob
>
> More or less...here's what they have to say on the Campaign for Real
> Ale website (http://www.camra.org.uk): "Real ale is a natural product
> brewed using traditional ingredients and left to mature in the cask
> (container) from which it is served in the pub through a process
> called secondary fermentation".
>
> Their site also discusses the "merits" of government regulating what
> constitutes a full pint. I'd much rather prefer that government stick
> to the basics like not limiting free trade within and between the
> various states, respecting private property rights, coining money and
> defending our borders...but this may be WAY off topic!
My understanding is that the German government regulate what may be in beer very
tightly, thus eliminating many foreign (US) beers. But then again, I've heard
that Germans get 30% of their nutrition from beer, so maybe they don't want
preservatives etc.
Bob
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Date: 18 Sep 2007 05:23:09
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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Bob F wrote:
> My understanding is that the German government regulate what may be in
> beer very tightly, thus eliminating many foreign (US) beers. But then
> again, I've heard that Germans get 30% of their nutrition from beer, so
> maybe they don't want preservatives etc.
What you are talking about there is the Reinheitsgebot law which used to ban
additives from beers sold in Germany. It is not a law as such nowadays as
it has been declared a restrictive practice by the EU but all but a couple
of German brewers still stick to it and some of them bend the rules a bit.
For instance, the Reinheitsgebot insists on malt but how malted a grain has
to be to be termed 'malt' is open to interpretation and there are oddities
like Frankenheimer Blue which is an altbier brewed to Reinheitsgebot
standards but is then mixed with cola (60% beer, 40% cola) and bottled.
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 15:42:34
From: Scott P
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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Hi Kev,
The "beer pump" you referred to is actually called a beer engine.
Mark noted that one of the disadvantages of a beer engine is that it
pulls air on top of the beer in the cask. This is not always the
case. Many setups equalize the pressure in the cask by venting co2
into the cask as beer is drawn out. The co2 blankets the beer
protecting it from oxidation and keeping the carbonation level
stable.
Typically, ale served with a beer engine is cask conditioned - that is
to say the beer supports an active yeast culture; it is served at
cellar temperature, which is about 55 degrees and naturally
carbonated. Real Ale, according to CAMRA, is served at about 1.5
volumes of co2 pressure at 55 degrees; when compared to typical
American beer like Bud or Coors, Real Ale is almost flat. In the U.S.
most expect their beer to be carbonated to 2.5 to 2.8 volumes of
pressure.
One of my all-time favorite beers is Mirror Pond ale when it is served
cask conditioned and at cellar temperatures. But then again, just
about any ale is fantastic when cared for and served properly. I do,
however, get irritated when I order a cask conditioned ale and it is
served in a frosty glass!!! It's kind of like ordering a stout and
having it served ice-cold and highly carbonated...unnatural.
You can also substitute gravity for a beer engine when serving cask
conditioned ales.
Cheers!
Scott P.
Brewing in Star, Idaho
Here's a link to an interesting article about tending casks of ale:
http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/realale3.html
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 21:02:25
From: beerboyfeelgood
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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"Scott P" <scottphillips1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190043754.534329.198620@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Kev,
>
> The "beer pump" you referred to is actually called a beer engine.
>
> Mark noted that one of the disadvantages of a beer engine is that it
> pulls air on top of the beer in the cask. This is not always the
> case. Many setups equalize the pressure in the cask by venting co2
> into the cask as beer is drawn out. The co2 blankets the beer
> protecting it from oxidation and keeping the carbonation level
> stable.
>
> Typically, ale served with a beer engine is cask conditioned - that is
> to say the beer supports an active yeast culture; it is served at
> cellar temperature, which is about 55 degrees and naturally
> carbonated. Real Ale, according to CAMRA, is served at about 1.5
> volumes of co2 pressure at 55 degrees; when compared to typical
> American beer like Bud or Coors, Real Ale is almost flat. In the U.S.
> most expect their beer to be carbonated to 2.5 to 2.8 volumes of
> pressure.
>
> One of my all-time favorite beers is Mirror Pond ale when it is served
> cask conditioned and at cellar temperatures. But then again, just
> about any ale is fantastic when cared for and served properly. I do,
> however, get irritated when I order a cask conditioned ale and it is
> served in a frosty glass!!! It's kind of like ordering a stout and
> having it served ice-cold and highly carbonated...unnatural.
>
> You can also substitute gravity for a beer engine when serving cask
> conditioned ales.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Scott P.
> Brewing in Star, Idaho
>
> Here's a link to an interesting article about tending casks of ale:
> http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/realale3.html
Great info, Scott. "Beer engine" actually pulls up a lot of hits. I've
always wanted to try cask conditioning one of my brews, but I don't go
through that much beer. I'm sure that it would get extremely flat before I
finished it off. On a side note, how's the weather up there in Star? I
lived in Boise for 4 years and absolutely loved it. You really can't beat
the fall, up there. Talk about ideal brewing weather...
kev
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Date: 19 Sep 2007 17:41:55
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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beerboyfeelgood wrote:
> Great info, Scott. "Beer engine" actually pulls up a lot of hits
I remember putting the words hand pump into a search on ebay. The first two
items were a pump thing for women to increase their bust size and a
Victorian enema pump in it's original mahogany case (that one had got to
over £1100 IIRC)
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 09:51:42
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
|
"Scott P" <scottphillips1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190043754.534329.198620@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Kev,
>
> The "beer pump" you referred to is actually called a beer engine.
>
> Mark noted that one of the disadvantages of a beer engine is that it
> pulls air on top of the beer in the cask. This is not always the
> case. Many setups equalize the pressure in the cask by venting co2
> into the cask as beer is drawn out. The co2 blankets the beer
> protecting it from oxidation and keeping the carbonation level
> stable.
>
> Typically, ale served with a beer engine is cask conditioned - that is
> to say the beer supports an active yeast culture; it is served at
> cellar temperature, which is about 55 degrees and naturally
> carbonated. Real Ale, according to CAMRA, is served at about 1.5
> volumes of co2 pressure at 55 degrees; when compared to typical
> American beer like Bud or Coors, Real Ale is almost flat. In the U.S.
> most expect their beer to be carbonated to 2.5 to 2.8 volumes of
> pressure.
>
Isn't it something to do with a ban on force carbonating? They can't serve ale
that isn't completely naturally carbonated?
Bob
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Date: 17 Sep 2007 09:31:24
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: beer pump (Engilsh Ales)
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"beerboyfeelgood" <richkevnospam@bellsouth.net > wrote in message
> <snip> one of the standard items in each pub was that the ale needed to be
> pumped out with a manual pump, rather than using the faucet type dispenser
> that we are familiar with here in the US. Has anyone used such a pump for
> the home? I'm just curious. I did notice that the website for CAMRA
> (Campaign for Real Ale) claims that such manual pumps are the only way to
> dispense ales... Interesting.
Google this group, there have been several discussions on this. Haven't used
or seen one myself but I understand the disadvantage is that it lets air in
on top of your brew. It goes bad quickly like the leftover beer from
yesterdays frat party kegger where everybody and there brother had to pump
the keg a couple times before they tapped the keg. IIRC Dan Listermann was
trying to develop a home version.
Mark R
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