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Main
Date: 04 Sep 2007 17:18:55
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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I've had on-again, off-again problems with my heatsticks tripping the GFCIs
on the switchboard I built to control them (construction of which is
detailed at http://alfter.us/heatstick/powerdist/). I've rebuilt a couple
of them, thinking that maybe there was a leak somewhere, even though they
usually ohm out properly.
After having my hot-liquor tank (one 1.5-kW element in a 48-qt. cooler) trip
a couple of GFCIs on the switchboard, I plugged it into a wall outlet in the
kitchen. Since it's in the kitchen, it's still a GFCI outlet. This one,
though, didn't trip. Later in the brew session, I put the hot-liquor tank
back on the switchboard, after which it worked without any further problems.
I ended up repeating this with one of the heatsticks when it came time to
start the boil. Again, it tripped the GFCIs on the switchboard, but it
didn't trip the kitchen-outlet GFCI. After a few minutes, I plugged it back
into the switchboard and it worked OK the rest of the time.
With this behavior, I'm beginning to think that my heatsticks have been OK
all along, but that there's a problem with the GFCI outlets on my
switchboard. Is there some failure mode for them that would make them
excessively "twitchy?" I've given half a thought to putting 2-pin adapters
on the heatstick plugs to disconnect the ground connection; what I've read
on GFCIs and how they work indicates that there would still be some level of
protection:
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_think_gfci/
To those of you who are using heatsticks: do you have yours grounded or
ungrounded, and if you're plugging them into a GFCI (whether in-wall or
otherwise), do you have problems with them tripping?
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 21:17:03
From: HbDragon
Subject: Re: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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You aren't plugging your portable GFCI device INTO a GFCI outlet are you?
That'll cause fits with the circuits...
You can go to your favorite big box hardware store and for less than $10 buy
a plug in tester that will tell you if the outlet is wired correctly.
That's a very small price to pay for the "peace of mind" that it can give.
Other than that, I agree with the higher amperage outlets and larger guage
wiring. Just make sure your household breakers can handle the load, for the
same reason.
"Scott Alfter" <scott@alfter.DIESPAMMERSDIE.us > wrote in message
news:cM6dnXF5wqlSREDbnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> I've had on-again, off-again problems with my heatsticks tripping the
> GFCIs
> on the switchboard I built to control them (construction of which is
> detailed at http://alfter.us/heatstick/powerdist/). I've rebuilt a couple
> of them, thinking that maybe there was a leak somewhere, even though they
> usually ohm out properly.
>
> After having my hot-liquor tank (one 1.5-kW element in a 48-qt. cooler)
> trip
> a couple of GFCIs on the switchboard, I plugged it into a wall outlet in
> the
> kitchen. Since it's in the kitchen, it's still a GFCI outlet. This one,
> though, didn't trip. Later in the brew session, I put the hot-liquor tank
> back on the switchboard, after which it worked without any further
> problems.
>
> I ended up repeating this with one of the heatsticks when it came time to
> start the boil. Again, it tripped the GFCIs on the switchboard, but it
> didn't trip the kitchen-outlet GFCI. After a few minutes, I plugged it
> back
> into the switchboard and it worked OK the rest of the time.
>
> With this behavior, I'm beginning to think that my heatsticks have been OK
> all along, but that there's a problem with the GFCI outlets on my
> switchboard. Is there some failure mode for them that would make them
> excessively "twitchy?" I've given half a thought to putting 2-pin adapters
> on the heatstick plugs to disconnect the ground connection; what I've read
> on GFCIs and how they work indicates that there would still be some level
> of
> protection:
>
> http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_think_gfci/
>
> To those of you who are using heatsticks: do you have yours grounded or
> ungrounded, and if you're plugging them into a GFCI (whether in-wall or
> otherwise), do you have problems with them tripping?
>
> _/_
> / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
> (IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
> \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on
> Usenet?
>
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 20:08:23
From: Chris Miller
Subject: Re: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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Scott Alfter wrote:
> I've had on-again, off-again problems with my heatsticks tripping the GFCIs
> on the switchboard I built to control them (construction of which is
> detailed at http://alfter.us/heatstick/powerdist/).
Any chance you're plugging your switchboard into a GFCI protected outlet? I hear plugging these into
each other is a problem. Just a thought...
Chris
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 14:57:10
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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On Sep 5, 7:03 am, "Mark R" <mray...@nospam.rr.com > wrote:
> What Mike said. I'm not sure how the ground faulty works but are you sure
> you have it wired with the correct polarity? That could trip it.
A GFCI works by comparing the currents on both legs. If they are not
exactly equal, there must be a fault to ground somewhere. I wonder if
the heat sticks in question are leaking a very small amount of
current, so small that some GFCI's do not detect it (but obviously
others do detect it). If the GFCI is not itself faulty, then if it's
tripping, there must be a ground fault somewhere by definition.
I would be very cautious using this equipment.
Scott
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 10:42:31
From: Joe Sallustio
Subject: Re: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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On Sep 5, 10:03 am, "Mark R" <mray...@nospam.rr.com > wrote:
> "MDixon" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > I saw the post on HBD and my thinking it the easiest thing is to replace
> > the GFCI on the board and see what happens. Hopefully it is faulty and the
> > one in the kitchen is operational. It could be horrifically bad if the one
> > in the kitchen didn't function and the one on the board is functioning
> > properly.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Mike
>
> What Mike said. I'm not sure how the ground faulty works but are you sure
> you have it wired with the correct polarity? That could trip it. There's
> hot, neutral, and ground and I'm not sure which side the hot goes on. I have
> one of those little plug in things with the diodes that light up and tells
> you if you have correct polarity, good ground, etc. And you might want to
> test your kitchen circuit just to be on the safe side.
>
> Mark R
Technically you are not supposed to use a regular GFCI with a portable
cord but assuming you have black to black and black on brass and so
forth on everything and have already made sure all the connections are
tight are you sure you bought the right size? 1.5 KW is around 12.5 A
and it could just be you bought a 15A GFCI and the tolerance stack-up
is making the over current breaker trip. I would use a 20A at that
wattage. 20A receptacles have that odd sideways terminal. I would use
12 gauge wire and might make the portable cord 10 gauge. I don't know
how long all of this is either...
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Date: 05 Sep 2007 07:22:42
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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Scott Alfter wrote:
> I've had on-again, off-again problems with my heatsticks tripping the GFCIs
> on the switchboard I built to control them (construction of which is
> detailed at http://alfter.us/heatstick/powerdist/). I've rebuilt a couple
> of them, thinking that maybe there was a leak somewhere, even though they
> usually ohm out properly.
>
> After having my hot-liquor tank (one 1.5-kW element in a 48-qt. cooler) trip
> a couple of GFCIs on the switchboard, I plugged it into a wall outlet in the
> kitchen. Since it's in the kitchen, it's still a GFCI outlet. This one,
> though, didn't trip. Later in the brew session, I put the hot-liquor tank
> back on the switchboard, after which it worked without any further problems.
>
> I ended up repeating this with one of the heatsticks when it came time to
> start the boil. Again, it tripped the GFCIs on the switchboard, but it
> didn't trip the kitchen-outlet GFCI. After a few minutes, I plugged it back
> into the switchboard and it worked OK the rest of the time.
>
> With this behavior, I'm beginning to think that my heatsticks have been OK
> all along, but that there's a problem with the GFCI outlets on my
> switchboard. Is there some failure mode for them that would make them
> excessively "twitchy?" I've given half a thought to putting 2-pin adapters
> on the heatstick plugs to disconnect the ground connection; what I've read
> on GFCIs and how they work indicates that there would still be some level of
> protection:
>
> http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_think_gfci/
>
> To those of you who are using heatsticks: do you have yours grounded or
> ungrounded, and if you're plugging them into a GFCI (whether in-wall or
> otherwise), do you have problems with them tripping?
>
I saw the post on HBD and my thinking it the easiest thing is to replace
the GFCI on the board and see what happens. Hopefully it is faulty and
the one in the kitchen is operational. It could be horrifically bad if
the one in the kitchen didn't function and the one on the board is
functioning properly.
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 05 Sep 2007 09:03:40
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Why would my heatsticks trip some GFCIs, but not others?
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"MDixon" <me@privacy.net > wrote in message
>
> I saw the post on HBD and my thinking it the easiest thing is to replace
> the GFCI on the board and see what happens. Hopefully it is faulty and the
> one in the kitchen is operational. It could be horrifically bad if the one
> in the kitchen didn't function and the one on the board is functioning
> properly.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
What Mike said. I'm not sure how the ground faulty works but are you sure
you have it wired with the correct polarity? That could trip it. There's
hot, neutral, and ground and I'm not sure which side the hot goes on. I have
one of those little plug in things with the diodes that light up and tells
you if you have correct polarity, good ground, etc. And you might want to
test your kitchen circuit just to be on the safe side.
Mark R
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