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Date: 22 Aug 2007 14:05:44
From: Bill Velek
Subject: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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First, I'm an experienced all grain brewer, and I have a couple of basic
brewing books, so I don't need anything to explain how to brew, etc.
Second, I did spend quite a bit of time trying to research old threads
via Google groups, but most of the threads seem rather 'dated' --
anywhere from a couple to several years old -- and I'm wondering if
there is more info and experience out there now.
I use BeerToolsPro software to help me design my recipes, but that only
provides me with the amounts and temps of strike water and infusions,
sparge water, etc., along with telling me whether my ingredients will
result in how many IBUs, color range, and original/final gravity, etc.,
but does not readily tell me, for instance, _which_ hops are the most
appropriate for a given style of beer, etc. I have considered getting
one or more books, and have some interest in the 'cloning' books, but
have read in several old threads that they are actually not very
accurate and very often use grain bills, hops, and mash schedules that
are at odds with what is known (or commonly believed) to be the actual
ingredients/schedule for the target brews. I am therefore wondering
about 'Designing Great Beers'. Is anyone here familiar with that book,
and would it be a good way to supplement brewing software? I know the
easy answer is no doubt "Yes", but in what way? What I'm looking for is
something that will tell me that for "this" beer or beer-style, I should
use "this" type of hops, and "that" yeast, etc. Any info that will help
be better appreciate "why" certain ingredients are used for a particular
style would be great, too. If there are any other book recommendations,
that will be appreciated, as well.
Thanks.
Bill Velek - PERSONAL sites = www.velek.com & www.2plus2is4.com
690+ homebrewer group just for Equipment: www.tinyurl.com/axuol
310+ member group just for Growing Hops: www.tinyurl.com/3au2uv
NEW group just for Homebrewing Supplies: www.tinyurl.com/2wnang
Join 'Homebrewers' to Help Cure Disease: www.tinyurl.com/yjlnyv
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 04:26:11
From: Fred L Johnson
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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I would consider the new Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff
and John Palmer. Jamil Zainasheff is an expert on styles and would not
steer you
wrong on ingredients and John Palmer is pretty solid technically.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:14:02
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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Bill Velek <billvelek@alltel.net >:
>First, I'm an experienced all grain brewer, and I have a couple
>of basic brewing books, so I don't need anything to explain how
>to brew, etc.
>Second, I did spend quite a bit of time trying to research old
>threads via Google groups, but most of the threads seem rather
>'dated' -- anywhere from a couple to several years old -- and
>I'm wondering if there is more info and experience out there
>now.
>I use BeerToolsPro software to help me design my recipes, but
>that only provides me with the amounts and temps of strike water
>and infusions, sparge water, etc., along with telling me whether
>my ingredients will result in how many IBUs, color range, and
>original/final gravity, etc., but does not readily tell me, for
>instance, _which_ hops are the most appropriate for a given
>style of beer, etc. I have considered getting one or more
>books, and have some interest in the 'cloning' books, but have
>read in several old threads that they are actually not very
>accurate and very often use grain bills, hops, and mash
>schedules that are at odds with what is known (or commonly
>believed) to be the actual ingredients/schedule for the target
>brews. I am therefore wondering about 'Designing Great Beers'.
>Is anyone here familiar with that book, and would it be a good
>way to supplement brewing software? I know the easy answer is no
>doubt "Yes", but in what way? What I'm looking for is something
>that will tell me that for "this" beer or beer-style, I should
>use "this" type of hops, and "that" yeast, etc. Any info that
>will help be better appreciate "why" certain ingredients are
>used for a particular style would be great, too. If there are
>any other book recommendations, that will be appreciated, as
>well.
I second the "Designing Great Beers" recommendation. Along with
recipe history and analysis, there are good explanation of how to
determine water usage, grainbill, and hop additions. Even if
using brewing software, this stuff is good to know just for
general edification.
cheers,
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 15:24:41
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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Bill Velek wrote:
> First, I'm an experienced all grain brewer, and I have a couple of basic
> brewing books, so I don't need anything to explain how to brew, etc.
>
> Second, I did spend quite a bit of time trying to research old threads
> via Google groups, but most of the threads seem rather 'dated' --
> anywhere from a couple to several years old -- and I'm wondering if
> there is more info and experience out there now.
>
> I use BeerToolsPro software to help me design my recipes, but that only
> provides me with the amounts and temps of strike water and infusions,
> sparge water, etc., along with telling me whether my ingredients will
> result in how many IBUs, color range, and original/final gravity, etc.,
> but does not readily tell me, for instance, _which_ hops are the most
> appropriate for a given style of beer, etc. I have considered getting
> one or more books, and have some interest in the 'cloning' books, but
> have read in several old threads that they are actually not very
> accurate and very often use grain bills, hops, and mash schedules that
> are at odds with what is known (or commonly believed) to be the actual
> ingredients/schedule for the target brews. I am therefore wondering
> about 'Designing Great Beers'. Is anyone here familiar with that book,
> and would it be a good way to supplement brewing software? I know the
> easy answer is no doubt "Yes", but in what way? What I'm looking for is
> something that will tell me that for "this" beer or beer-style, I should
> use "this" type of hops, and "that" yeast, etc. Any info that will help
> be better appreciate "why" certain ingredients are used for a particular
> style would be great, too. If there are any other book recommendations,
> that will be appreciated, as well.
Designing Great Beers is a good book; the notable problem is that he has
no real information on Belgian styles, and some other substyles styles
are completely absent as well (Euro Dark Lager, for example).
He goes into some detail into the "whys" of ingredients, how ingredients
were used historically (to the extent that that data is available), and
presents a lot of information on incidence and amounts of ingredients
per style based on historical NHC second round winners. This is useful,
although I think the data naturally shows a build-in "contest" bias.
Overall highly recommended with the caveat that it's useless for Belgian
styles.
Other good books include some books from the AHA Style series -- some
are better than others. If you're into lagers, Noonan's "New Brewing
Lager Beer" is quite useful. I also like Fix's "Analysis of Brewing
Techniques", although some information may be more pertinent to small
professional brewers than homebrewers.
I haven't cared for the "Clone Brews" book, personally. The AG recipes
in particular seem poorly thought out, and in some cases just plain wrong.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:18:47
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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"The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty" <mikey666@666swampgas.666com >
wrote in message news:46CC9B89.9060400@666swampgas.666com...
> Designing Great Beers is a good book; the notable problem is that he has
> no real information on Belgian styles, and some other substyles styles are
> completely absent as well (Euro Dark Lager, for example).
>
> He goes into some detail into the "whys" of ingredients, how ingredients
> were used historically (to the extent that that data is available), and
> presents a lot of information on incidence and amounts of ingredients per
> style based on historical NHC second round winners. This is useful,
> although I think the data naturally shows a build-in "contest" bias.
>
> Overall highly recommended with the caveat that it's useless for Belgian
> styles.
>
> Other good books include some books from the AHA Style series -- some are
> better than others. If you're into lagers, Noonan's "New Brewing Lager
> Beer" is quite useful. I also like Fix's "Analysis of Brewing Techniques",
> although some information may be more pertinent to small professional
> brewers than homebrewers.
>
> I haven't cared for the "Clone Brews" book, personally. The AG recipes in
> particular seem poorly thought out, and in some cases just plain wrong.
>
Yep, I have three of those books (not Fix's book) and I would have to agrree
100% percent with your conclusions. Noonans's book is very useful if you're
into lagers in a big way, which I am.
Steve W (in Aus)
.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:12:05
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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On 2007-08-22, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mikey666@666swampgas.666com > wrote:
> Bill Velek wrote:
<snip >
>> ingredients/schedule for the target brews. I am therefore wondering
>> about 'Designing Great Beers'. Is anyone here familiar with that book,
>> and would it be a good way to supplement brewing software? I know the
>> easy answer is no doubt "Yes", but in what way? What I'm looking for is
>> something that will tell me that for "this" beer or beer-style, I should
>> use "this" type of hops, and "that" yeast, etc. Any info that will help
>> be better appreciate "why" certain ingredients are used for a particular
>> style would be great, too. If there are any other book recommendations,
>> that will be appreciated, as well.
>
> Designing Great Beers is a good book; the notable problem is that he has
> no real information on Belgian styles, and some other substyles styles
> are completely absent as well (Euro Dark Lager, for example).
>
"Designing Great Beers" is the most-used and dogeared book in my
brewing collection. I've never followed any recipes (with the
exception of my first 3 batches) and created all my formulations from
Daniels' excellent book. As stated, it's not too useful for the
Belgian styles.
I learned a lot from Noonan's lagering book, but it's nowhere near as
useful as Daniels' book IMO, and we make a lot of lagers.
JB
--
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:16:18
From: Vladimir
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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On Aug 22, 3:05 pm, Bill Velek <billve...@alltel.net > wrote:
> I am therefore wondering
> about 'Designing Great Beers'. Is anyone here familiar with that book,
> and would it be a good way to supplement brewing software? I know the
> easy answer is no doubt "Yes", but in what way? What I'm looking for is
> something that will tell me that for "this" beer or beer-style, I should
> use "this" type of hops, and "that" yeast, etc. Any info that will help
> be better appreciate "why" certain ingredients are used for a particular
> style would be great, too. If there are any other book recommendations,
> that will be appreciated, as well.
I find 'Designing Great Beers' to be a great resource. For each beer
style in the book, Ray Daniels goes through the history, traditional
ingredients and techniques. He also analyzes the ingredients used in
the beers that made it to the AHA National's Second Round one year
(1992 IIRC). Sounds like it's very much what you're looking for.
Another possibility could be any of the books in the 'Classic Beer
Style' series. I don't have any, so I can't really comment on the
content.
-Vlad
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 22:51:18
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Which books would be best to supplement brewing software?
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Vladimir <glad@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
>I find 'Designing Great Beers' to be a great resource. For each beer
>style in the book, Ray Daniels goes through the history, traditional
>ingredients and techniques.
Yes, I also think it's a very worthwhile book. In addition
to the style chapters, the whole first part of the book covers
ingredients, hitting mash temperature, calculating water needs,
etc. I don't have any other single resource that has all that
information gathered in one place and organized so well.
>He also analyzes the ingredients used in the beers that made it
>to the AHA National's Second Round one year (1992 IIRC).
That's moderately useful, but is one aspect I think has
not aged quite so well. In the last ten or so years we
homebrewers have gotten access to a lot more and accurate
information about about how beer styles are brewed in their
native countries, and (at least in the US) have gotten much
better access to grains from those places. I think we can do
a much better job these days designing beers the way they
are meant to be, rather than approximating them using the
ingredients we had back then. Granted, the historical section
of the style chapters are still very useful, but the AHA
winners data is a bit, um, suspect.
>Another possibility could be any of the books in the 'Classic Beer
>Style' series. I don't have any, so I can't really comment on the
>content.
I have most of them. Some are quite dated, some are
written poorly, some are more up to date and more well-
written. There are good (mild ale, barleywine), bad (stout),
outdated (Vienna/Maerzen/Oktoberfest), and a few others
that I think now have better information available elsewhere
(Belgian Ale: see _Brew Like a Monk_, Lambic: see "Wild
Brews").
All the above is my opinion, of course.
--
Joel Plutchak "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com - Eric Cartman
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