| |
Main
Date: 03 Sep 2007 01:10:50
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0326_01C7EE16.E8DB5D10
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying with =
the Maillard Reaction in malt.
For those who don't know, the Maillard reaction is the browning =
effect seen when making toast and also in many other foods that give a =
unique smell and flavour profile that most of us wrongly attribute to =
caramalisation.
In fact it is a chemical reaction between a reducing sugar and an =
amino acid in the presence of heat and does not require the high =
temperatures of caramalisation for the reaction to occur.
In my experiment my reducing sugar was light dried malt extract and =
my amino acid was Lysine, available from health food shops in powder =
form.
Using 100g of malt and 5g of Lysine in a small amount of water and =
boiled until reduced to a thick syrup resulted in a strong maillard =
reaction, a caramal tasting malt that was not caramalised because the =
heat required for caramalisation was not achieved.
The reason for this experiment is quite a few beers have this =
flavour profile that some of us attribute to being very malty when in =
fact it a caramal type of taste that we are experiencing. Nevertheless, =
the caramal flavour does taste very malty because it is derived from =
malt.
Triple decoctions and long boil times can also (supposedly) achieve =
this but are not really practical on a home brewing scale and recent =
trials by Mr. Conn apparently found minimal differences between decocted =
mashes and non-decocted mashes.
For my next experiment, I will draw off a proportion of the first =
runnings, maybe 2-3 litres, reduce it somewhat and add the Lysine to =
trigger the Maillard reaction and boil some more. When satisfied I =
achieved the taste profile, I'll add it the main boil and see what =
happens.
Just maybe, I might be able to achieve what triple decoctions are =
supposed to achieve. Next weekend will tell!
Steve W (in Aus)
------=_NextPart_000_0326_01C7EE16.E8DB5D10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" >
<HTML ><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1" >
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16527" name=3DGENERATOR >
<STYLE ></STYLE>
</HEAD >
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" >
<DIV ><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> May be of some =
interest to=20
some people but I have been toying with the Maillard Reaction in=20
malt.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> For those who don't =
know, the=20
Maillard reaction is the browning effect seen when making toast and also =
in many=20
other foods that give a unique smell and flavour profile that most of us =
wrongly=20
attribute to caramalisation.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> In fact it is a =
chemical=20
reaction between a reducing sugar and an amino acid in the presence of =
heat and=20
does not require the high temperatures of caramalisation for the =
reaction to=20
occur.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> In my experiment my =
reducing=20
sugar was light dried malt extract and my amino acid was Lysine, =
available from=20
health food shops in powder form.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Using 100g of malt =
and 5g of=20
Lysine in a small amount of water and boiled until reduced to a thick =
syrup=20
resulted in a strong maillard reaction, a caramal tasting malt that was =
not=20
caramalised because the heat required for caramalisation was not=20
achieved.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The reason for this =
experiment=20
is quite a few beers have this flavour profile that some of us attribute =
to=20
being very malty when in fact it a caramal type of taste that we are=20
experiencing. Nevertheless, the caramal flavour does taste very malty =
because it=20
is derived from malt.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Triple decoctions =
and long boil=20
times can also (supposedly) achieve this but are not really practical on =
a home=20
brewing scale and recent trials by Mr. Conn apparently found minimal =
differences=20
between decocted mashes and non-decocted mashes.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> For my next =
experiment, I will=20
draw off a proportion of the first runnings, maybe 2-3 litres, reduce it =
somewhat and add the Lysine to trigger the Maillard reaction and boil =
some more.=20
When satisfied I achieved the taste profile, I'll add it the main boil =
and see=20
what happens.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Just maybe, I might =
be able to=20
achieve what triple decoctions are supposed to achieve. Next weekend =
will=20
tell!</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Steve W (in =
Aus)</FONT ></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0326_01C7EE16.E8DB5D10--
|
|
| |
Date: 04 Sep 2007 11:52:02
From: rb
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
Steve/Aus wrote:
>
> May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying with
> the Maillard Reaction in malt.
>
> For those who don't know, the Maillard reaction is the browning
> effect seen when making toast and also in many other foods that give a
> unique smell and flavour profile that most of us wrongly attribute to
> caramalisation.
> In fact it is a chemical reaction between a reducing sugar and an
> amino acid in the presence of heat and does not require the high
> temperatures of caramalisation for the reaction to occur.
> In my experiment my reducing sugar was light dried malt extract and
> my amino acid was Lysine, available from health food shops in powder form.
> Using 100g of malt and 5g of Lysine in a small amount of water and
> boiled until reduced to a thick syrup resulted in a strong maillard
> reaction, a caramal tasting malt that was not caramalised because the
> heat required for caramalisation was not achieved.
> The reason for this experiment is quite a few beers have this
> flavour profile that some of us attribute to being very malty when in
> fact it a caramal type of taste that we are experiencing. Nevertheless,
> the caramal flavour does taste very malty because it is derived from malt.
> Triple decoctions and long boil times can also (supposedly) achieve
> this but are not really practical on a home brewing scale and recent
> trials by Mr. Conn apparently found minimal differences between decocted
> mashes and non-decocted mashes.
> For my next experiment, I will draw off a proportion of the first
> runnings, maybe 2-3 litres, reduce it somewhat and add the Lysine to
> trigger the Maillard reaction and boil some more. When satisfied I
> achieved the taste profile, I'll add it the main boil and see what happens.
> Just maybe, I might be able to achieve what triple decoctions are
> supposed to achieve. Next weekend will tell!
>
> Steve W (in Aus)
Just out of interest why lysine? I know it's readily available and
that's maybe why. I'm just wondering whether the amino acid used in the
reaction would influence the flavour at all ie lysine vs cysteine for
example??
I note that the discoverer of the reaction was named Louis Camille
Maillard, I wonder if he was known as Louis Caramille Maillard afterwards:)?
rb
|
| |
Date: 04 Sep 2007 14:23:37
From: Jay
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 01:10:50 UTC, "Steve/Aus"
<adlab@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au > wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
> May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying with the Maillard Reaction in malt.
>
> For those who don't know, the Maillard reaction is the browning effect seen when making toast and also in many other foods that give a unique smell and flavour profile that most of us wrongly attribute to caramalisation.
> In fact it is a chemical reaction between a reducing sugar and an amino acid in the presence of heat and does not require the high temperatures of caramalisation for the reaction to occur.
> In my experiment my reducing sugar was light dried malt extract and my amino acid was Lysine, available from health food shops in powder form.
> Using 100g of malt and 5g of Lysine in a small amount of water and boiled until reduced to a thick syrup resulted in a strong maillard reaction, a caramal tasting malt that was not caramalised because the heat required for caramalisation was not achieved.
> The reason for this experiment is quite a few beers have this flavour profile that some of us attribute to being very malty when in fact it a caramal type of taste that we are experiencing. Nevertheless, the caramal flavour does taste very malty because it is derived from malt.
> Triple decoctions and long boil times can also (supposedly) achieve this but are not really practical on a home brewing scale and recent trials by Mr. Conn apparently found minimal differences between decocted mashes and non-decocted mashes.
> For my next experiment, I will draw off a proportion of the first runnings, maybe 2-3 litres, reduce it somewhat and add the Lysine to trigger the Maillard reaction and boil some more. When satisfied I achieved the taste profile, I'll add it the main boil and see what happens.
> Just maybe, I might be able to achieve what triple decoctions are supposed to achieve. Next weekend will tell!
>
Hmmm, monosodium glutamate?
--
Have fun brewing beer.
|
| |
Date: 04 Sep 2007 06:34:58
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
"Steve/Aus" <adlab@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au > wrote in
news:uaJCi.30041$4A1.543@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
> May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying with
> the Maillard Reaction in malt.
>
I'm interested, but I have to do what people on Internet message boards to
best--suggest alternatives that skirt around the real question or problem.
Are you able to get melanoidins malt where you are? It's my understanding
that malt has gone through something like a Maillard Reaction already,
which makes it a good substitute for decoction mashing.
Anyways, I'm curious where this goes, particularly if you are able to get
that flavor without browning excessively.
|
| | |
Date: 04 Sep 2007 07:18:25
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
"Adam Preble" <adamDOTprobleATgmailDOTcom > wrote in message
news:Xns99A1101CE45C6adamDOTprobleATgmail@66.250.146.128...
> "Steve/Aus" <adlab@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au> wrote in
> news:uaJCi.30041$4A1.543@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
>>
>> May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying with
>> the Maillard Reaction in malt.
>>
>
> I'm interested, but I have to do what people on Internet message boards to
> best--suggest alternatives that skirt around the real question or problem.
> Are you able to get melanoidins malt where you are? It's my understanding
> that malt has gone through something like a Maillard Reaction already,
> which makes it a good substitute for decoction mashing.
>
> Anyways, I'm curious where this goes, particularly if you are able to get
> that flavor without browning excessively.
I'll report my findings back on this newsgroup under new headings as I play
with these ideas.
Yes, I can get Melanoidin malt. Remember though, there's melanoidins in most
malts. I have found excessive use of melanoidin malt adds a strange taste to
beer which I do not like.
I would guess you're right in that malts would have had to go through some
Maillard reaction as it does contain sugars (talking of crystal malts here)
and also some protein, of which amino acids are the building blocks, so to
speak.
Now for a wild theory.
Pilsner Urquell has a caramal/malty taste. It is always said that the triple
decoction is the key. But, it is also made from undermodified malt. The
small unmodified part of the kernel would probably have a much higher
protein content than the modified part, OR the proteins in the unmodified
part may stay intact, or not destroyed. It is aslo said that the malting of
PU barley is only very light so this is a possibility. Yet, PU is quite a
dark beer considering it is made from lightly kilned, undermodified malt.
Could it be that very active amino acids in this grain are working with the
reducing sugars to both darken the beer and introduce the flavours
associated with a strong Maillard Reaction. Flavours we can not achieve
because the necessary amono acids in malt we buy, just aren't there.
If this is the case, Denny Conn is right. No amount of decoction mashing is
really going to make any difference, unless the required level of amino
acids are present to trigger the Maillard reaction.
Now how's that for a wild theory. I'm off in my Tardis now,
Steve W (in Aus)
|
| | | |
Date: 05 Sep 2007 06:26:42
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
"Steve/Aus" <adlab@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au > wrote in
news:5F7Di.30501$4A1.10799@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
> "Adam Preble" <adamDOTprobleATgmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:Xns99A1101CE45C6adamDOTprobleATgmail@66.250.146.128...
>> "Steve/Aus" <adlab@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au> wrote in
>> news:uaJCi.30041$4A1.543@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>>
>>>
>>> May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying
>>> with the Maillard Reaction in malt.
>>>
>>
>> I'm interested, but I have to do what people on Internet message
>> boards to best--suggest alternatives that skirt around the real
> Yes, I can get Melanoidin malt. Remember though, there's melanoidins
> in most malts. I have found excessive use of melanoidin malt adds a
> strange taste to beer which I do not like.
Is it something like baked raisins in your mind? I've never baked
raisins, mind you, but I imagine it's something like an overpowering
currant. I guess there's biscuit mail too.
> I would guess you're right in that malts would have had to go through
> some Maillard reaction as it does contain sugars (talking of crystal
> malts here) and also some protein, of which amino acids are the
> building blocks, so to speak.
And then you have the enzyme and heat. I was wondering--is a high heat
source an absolute requirement? We know that amylase will convert at low
temperatures, but it will be at a slower rate. Could we add lysene to
the mash tun and just take a long rest?
> Now for a wild theory.
> Pilsner Urquell has a caramal/malty taste. It is always said that the
> triple decoction is the key. But, it is also made from undermodified
> malt. The small unmodified part of the kernel would probably have a
> much higher protein content than the modified part, OR the proteins in
...
Do you want a science project? I once brewed some beer from steam-
crimped barley. I had manually added amylase to the tun to get a
conversion. The result--with a Belgian yeast--was very much like a
tripel, although it had a tun of gunk in it that didn't settle so well.
It needed a long protein rest. The sack was about $8 USD; the tripel I
made for it cost less than the grist alone for a normal batch. So
there's little risk in losing out on a lot of money. But hey, you could
try mashing with lycene and amylase. There you have a "purely
undermodified malt" for experimentation. :)
I expect it still needs intense heat at one step which really causes the
reaction. If I didn't have to fix the handle on my mill, I would
consider this mayhem with the pilsener malt I have to use up right now.
|
| |
Date: 03 Sep 2007 08:23:17
From: MikeMcG
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
On 3 Sep, 02:10, "Steve/Aus" <ad...@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au > wrote:
> May be of some interest to some people but I have been toying with the Maillard Reaction in malt.
> Steve W (in Aus)
Steve - don't you get DrWho in Oz??? - even if you're a particle
physicist, you should never, ever toy with the Maillard Reaction! (cf
The Brownian Motion paradox continuum) - it's just not worth it,
unless you have a psychic screwdriver, a Tardis & at least 2 hearts.
HTH
MikeMcG
aka 'The Patient'.
|
| |
Date: 03 Sep 2007 08:59:44
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Toying with Maillard Reaction in malt
|
Steve/Aus wrote:
> achieved the taste profile, I'll add it the main boil and see what happens.
> Just maybe, I might be able to achieve what triple decoctions are
> supposed to achieve. Next weekend will tell!
>
Sounds interesting -- looking forward to seeing how it goes.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
|
