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Main
Date: 05 Sep 2007 10:33:56
From: JS
Subject: Starter Question
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How large a starter can I make from a WL vial without stepping up? I
was thinking of a 2-ltr. starter for an Altbier. Can I just pitch the
vial into a 2-lt. wort, or is it best to start with 500 mls and step
it up to 2+ liters?
John S.
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Date: 09 Sep 2007 20:41:26
From: ChristopheRonald
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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On Sep 5, 9:33 am, JS <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote:
> How large a starter can I make from a WL vial without stepping up? I
> was thinking of a 2-ltr. starter for an Altbier. Can I just pitch the
> vial into a 2-lt. wort, or is it best to start with 500 mls and step
> it up to 2+ liters?
>
> John S.
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
> Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
they say one vial is a good amount for 5 gallons or less. if your
gonna do more than 5, make a starte. less, no need...
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Date: 12 Sep 2007 09:04:02
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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ChristopheRonald wrote:
> they say one vial is a good amount for 5 gallons or less. if your
> gonna do more than 5, make a starte. less, no need...
I would have to disagree with "them", based on my own experience. Maybe
if your 5 gal. is a 1.045 OG or less, but for anything greater I've
always gotten better results by using a starter, even for 5 gal.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 02:08:15
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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On 2007-09-12, Denny Conn <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> ChristopheRonald wrote:
>
>> they say one vial is a good amount for 5 gallons or less. if your
>> gonna do more than 5, make a starte. less, no need...
>
> I would have to disagree with "them", based on my own experience. Maybe
> if your 5 gal. is a 1.045 OG or less, but for anything greater I've
> always gotten better results by using a starter, even for 5 gal.
>
> ---------->Denny
I'd like to add that by making starters, not only do you get a better
pitch, but you can get 4-5 pitches out of a WL vial. Just save a
little of the starter and grow a new one. We save them in Bell jars in
the fridge.
Starters are all good.
--
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 12 Sep 2007 18:34:46
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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Denny Conn <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> ChristopheRonald wrote:
>
>> they say one vial is a good amount for 5 gallons or less. if your
>> gonna do more than 5, make a starte. less, no need...
>
> I would have to disagree with "them", based on my own experience. Maybe
> if your 5 gal. is a 1.045 OG or less, but for anything greater I've
> always gotten better results by using a starter, even for 5 gal.
>
I agree ... if you use liquid yeast, make a starter. Whitelabs typically has
less yeast in the vials than WYeast has in the XL blue packs. I make a
starter with both, but most definitely with Whitelabs vials. Don't get me
wrong, Whitelabs makes an excellent product.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.
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Date: 12 Sep 2007 11:49:25
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
> I agree ... if you use liquid yeast, make a starter. Whitelabs typically has
> less yeast in the vials than WYeast has in the XL blue packs. I make a
> starter with both, but most definitely with Whitelabs vials. Don't get me
> wrong, Whitelabs makes an excellent product.
Yeah, they both make excellent products, and I'm sure that hris white
and Dave Logsdon have forgotten more about yeast than I'll ever know.
I've heard many people say that they get great results without starters,
but in my case, every time I've used a starter the beer has turned out
better than when I haven't. I don't need "experts" telling me I don't
need a starter when I have my own resluts to go by.
--------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 19:21:05
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:49:25 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
>
>> I agree ... if you use liquid yeast, make a starter. Whitelabs typically has
>> less yeast in the vials than WYeast has in the XL blue packs. I make a
>> starter with both, but most definitely with Whitelabs vials. Don't get me
>> wrong, Whitelabs makes an excellent product.
>
> Yeah, they both make excellent products, and I'm sure that hris white
> and Dave Logsdon have forgotten more about yeast than I'll ever know.
> I've heard many people say that they get great results without starters,
> but in my case, every time I've used a starter the beer has turned out
> better than when I haven't. I don't need "experts" telling me I don't
> need a starter when I have my own resluts to go by.
IMO, you also have to factor in that the yeast company and a given homebrewer
may have different opinions on what is important when defining a "successful"
use of liquid yeast. From what I've seen, most of the advice coming from
the yeast companies is more in line with what is easiest, not necessarily
what makes the best beer. It's easy to see why "ease of use" is important
to the company because they're trying to market the product to a wide
audience. Especially when you look at dry yeast, which is their main
compentition, and the big cost advantage that dry yeast has over them.
If you've got an average homebrewer standing in front of the yeast shelf
trying to decice between company A's dry yeast and company B's liquid yeast
at 5X the price, the last thing company B wants to write on the packaging is
"extra work required".
Joe Schmoe homebrewer who only makes a couple kit batches a year is probably
fine pitching a tube/pack directly. To them making a starter is a lot of
extra complication, and they never really miss any quality improvements. To
them, anything they make is good just because they made it. It's more of the
fun/novelty aspect that they're interested in. They don't really care about
the difference between mediocre homebrew and competition winning homebrew.
However, brewers interested enough in the hobby to be posting/researching on
here are probably more likely to consider quality as a higher priority than
ease of use. We're not really the ones that the yeast company is writing
the recommendations for.
As with most things though, try it both ways for yourself and decide which
works best for you. It's a subjective evaluation, there's no such thing as
"right" and "wrong".
John.
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Date: 05 Sep 2007 07:55:10
From: dutchbrew/chicago
Subject: Re: Starter Question
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On Sep 5, 9:33 am, JS <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote:
> How large a starter can I make from a WL vial without stepping up? I
> was thinking of a 2-ltr. starter for an Altbier. Can I just pitch the
> vial into a 2-lt. wort, or is it best to start with 500 mls and step
> it up to 2+ liters?
>
> John S.
>
Pitching the wl vile into 2 liters of wort without stepping should be
fine since you figure some people pitch that vial into their whole 5
gallon batch with good results. But to figure how much you can go
exactly you can use this calculator.
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
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