Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

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Date: 21 Sep 2007 07:32:45
From: Tennessee Tom
Subject: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain) lowers
the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the alcohol
level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there any good
reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?

TIA,
Tom

Date: 21 Sep 2007 19:16:04
From: Vladimir
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

On Sep 21, 7:32 am, Tennessee Tom <teastlak...@SPAMmyspeedworks.com >
wrote:
> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain) lowers
> the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the alcohol
> level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there any good
> reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>
> TIA,
> Tom

You might want to use some cane or corn sugar in a Belgian Strong Ale,
Barleywine or other high gravity beer to prevent it from being too
cloying. In any case, I think that general consensus these days is
that cane/corn sugar is not the cause of cidery off flavors.
-Vlad

Date: 21 Sep 2007 19:36:51
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

Vladimir <glad@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> On Sep 21, 7:32 am, Tennessee Tom <teastlak...@SPAMmyspeedworks.com>
> wrote:
>> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain) lowers
>> the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the alcohol
>> level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there any good
>> reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Tom
>
> You might want to use some cane or corn sugar in a Belgian Strong Ale,
> Barleywine or other high gravity beer to prevent it from being too
> cloying. In any case, I think that general consensus these days is
> that cane/corn sugar is not the cause of cidery off flavors.

I don't think you could make a beer like Duvel without using sugar.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

You will be advanced socially, without any special effort on your part.

Date: 21 Sep 2007 15:30:05
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

"Vladimir" <glad@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:1190402164.544416.95680@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 21, 7:32 am, Tennessee Tom <teastlak...@SPAMmyspeedworks.com>
> wrote:
>> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain) lowers
>> the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the alcohol
>> level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there any good
>> reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Tom
>
> You might want to use some cane or corn sugar in a Belgian Strong Ale,
> Barleywine or other high gravity beer to prevent it from being too
> cloying. In any case, I think that general consensus these days is
> that cane/corn sugar is not the cause of cidery off flavors.

It is my belief that it would be difficult to produce a higher alcohol
barley wine from extract without the use of sugar. Unfermentables are
cumulative and will result in a very high final gravity without sugar.

Date: 24 Sep 2007 00:26:23
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

"Dan Listermann" <dan@listermann.com > wrote in message
news:13f86kqmnqmof1a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Vladimir" <glad@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:1190402164.544416.95680@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 21, 7:32 am, Tennessee Tom <teastlak...@SPAMmyspeedworks.com>

> It is my belief that it would be difficult to produce a higher alcohol
> barley wine from extract without the use of sugar. Unfermentables are
> cumulative and will result in a very high final gravity without sugar.

Difficult maybe, impossible not. The addition of an enzyme in the primary
will help break down complex unfermentables into fermentable sugars.
I added a 5 gram sachet of amalyse enzyme to a primary nearing the end of
fermentation of a beer with 23% corn (boiled polenta) and fermenation took
off again albeit only mildly. Enough proof that the enzyme had done some
good (I should have taken gravity readings but didn't). I believe on your
side of the world, you can add Beano.
Steve W (in Aus)

Date: 21 Sep 2007 13:24:22
From: Beowulf
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

Date: 21 Sep 2007 09:10:21
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

"Tennessee Tom" <teastlakeNO@SPAMmyspeedworks.com > wrote in message
news:5XNIi.239$H_5.1472@eagle.america.net...
> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain) lowers
> the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the alcohol
> level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there any good
> reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?

As Mike pointed out, the cidery charge against sugar is a total
misconception. Sugar is just like any other brewing ingredient. It has its
uses and should not be dismissed out of hand.

Date: 21 Sep 2007 07:39:46
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

Tennessee Tom wrote:
> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain) lowers
> the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the alcohol
> level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there any good
> reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>

Let's straighten out a popular misconception. Sugar, table or corn, does
not cause cidery flavors. I've used up to 22% cane sugar (table) in
beers without ANY cidery flavors. I have also fermented pure sugar and
yeast nutrient and it came off hot and alcoholic, but not cidery. So if
you have cidery characteristics, they were not a result of sugar. Table
sugar ferments out completely and can lessen body making a beer thinner
and more alcoholic.

The reasons to use sugar would be to boost alcohol without increasing
the body or to lower finishing gravity and potentially dry out the beer.
I use it primarily in milds and in Belgian styles.

Cheers,
Mike

Date: 22 Sep 2007 09:12:38
From: Tennessee Tom
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

MDixon wrote:

> Tennessee Tom wrote:
>
>> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain)
>> lowers the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the
>> alcohol level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there
>> any good reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>>
>
> Let's straighten out a popular misconception. Sugar, table or corn,
> does not cause cidery flavors. I've used up to 22% cane sugar (table)
> in beers without ANY cidery flavors. I have also fermented pure sugar
> and yeast nutrient and it came off hot and alcoholic, but not cidery.
> So if you have cidery characteristics, they were not a result of
> sugar. Table sugar ferments out completely and can lessen body making
> a beer thinner and more alcoholic.
>
> The reasons to use sugar would be to boost alcohol without increasing
> the body or to lower finishing gravity and potentially dry out the
> beer. I use it primarily in milds and in Belgian styles.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike

OK, but here is where I got my info:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
and
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art30566.asp

both give a connection to cidery and corn/table sugars. However, they
both mention "too much" corn sugar, leaving one open to interpret the
effects of "normal" amounts.

Regards,
Tom

Date: 22 Sep 2007 09:22:02
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

Tennessee Tom wrote:
> MDixon wrote:
>
>> Tennessee Tom wrote:
>>
>>> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain)
>>> lowers the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the
>>> alcohol level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there
>>> any good reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>>>
>>
>> Let's straighten out a popular misconception. Sugar, table or corn,
>> does not cause cidery flavors. I've used up to 22% cane sugar (table)
>> in beers without ANY cidery flavors. I have also fermented pure sugar
>> and yeast nutrient and it came off hot and alcoholic, but not cidery.
>> So if you have cidery characteristics, they were not a result of
>> sugar. Table sugar ferments out completely and can lessen body making
>> a beer thinner and more alcoholic.
>>
>> The reasons to use sugar would be to boost alcohol without increasing
>> the body or to lower finishing gravity and potentially dry out the
>> beer. I use it primarily in milds and in Belgian styles.
>>
>
> OK, but here is where I got my info:
> http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
> and
> http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art30566.asp
>
> both give a connection to cidery and corn/table sugars. However, they
> both mention "too much" corn sugar, leaving one open to interpret the
> effects of "normal" amounts.
>

John is either incorrect (an extremely rare occurance) or was simply
stating information he pulled from other old sources. And if you want to
learn how to brew from Carolyn, be my guest...(insert rolling eye emoticon)

Ok, so what is too much. 22% turned out stellar, so where's the breaking
point? 100% sugar wasn't cidery either, unless your definition of cidery
is thin and alcoholic. To me cidery tastes like cider...

Cheers,
Mike

Date: 22 Sep 2007 10:41:22
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Adding Corn Sugar To a Recipe

"MDixon" <me@privacy.net > wrote in message
news:5lkj7nF8mcnmU1@mid.individual.net...
> Tennessee Tom wrote:
>> MDixon wrote:
>>
>>> Tennessee Tom wrote:
>>>
>>>> To me, using corn sugar in a recipe (i.e., in lieu of 100% grain)
>>>> lowers the overall quality of the product. IMO, it simply raises the
>>>> alcohol level and increases the chances of cidery flavors. Are there
>>>> any good reasons for doing this that I may not have considered?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let's straighten out a popular misconception. Sugar, table or corn, does
>>> not cause cidery flavors. I've used up to 22% cane sugar (table) in
>>> beers without ANY cidery flavors. I have also fermented pure sugar and
>>> yeast nutrient and it came off hot and alcoholic, but not cidery. So if
>>> you have cidery characteristics, they were not a result of sugar. Table
>>> sugar ferments out completely and can lessen body making a beer thinner
>>> and more alcoholic.
>>>
>>> The reasons to use sugar would be to boost alcohol without increasing
>>> the body or to lower finishing gravity and potentially dry out the beer.
>>> I use it primarily in milds and in Belgian styles.
>>>
>>
>> OK, but here is where I got my info:
>> http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
>> and
>> http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art30566.asp
>>
>> both give a connection to cidery and corn/table sugars. However, they
>> both mention "too much" corn sugar, leaving one open to interpret the
>> effects of "normal" amounts.
>>
>
> John is either incorrect (an extremely rare occurance) or was simply
> stating information he pulled from other old sources. And if you want to
> learn how to brew from Carolyn, be my guest...(insert rolling eye
> emoticon)
>
> Ok, so what is too much. 22% turned out stellar, so where's the breaking
> point? 100% sugar wasn't cidery either, unless your definition of cidery
> is thin and alcoholic. To me cidery tastes like cider...
>

I made a low carb beer that was 75% sugar. While it was not my best beer
ever, it was not cidery. Palmer information is based on old information and
a test he performed with an extract that is infamous for producing cidery
flavors - Coopers. He needs to revisit his test - hopefully with all grain
to eliminate the stale extract variable from the mix.